Judith Butler describes the October 7 attacks by Hamas as "armed resistance"

[DerekFaker]

Just that really. One of the pioneers of gender identity bullshit sees nothing wrong with what Hamas did. Can't say I'm too surprised.

https://twitter.com/josephhirsch5/status/1764784098822750420?t=exEWstv0huUMaPvoUe_eGg&s=19

You just lost an argument in addition to being a rape apologist.

The girl who was paraded round by Hamas, naked and beaten, in a truck. Another girl who was dragged into a truck by her hair by them, with blood on her pants.

So beating, raping and showing off the atrocities committed against young women at a festival were “acts of resistance”? And justified or acceptable in some way?

No matter what side we are on in this conflict, this is wrong, totally and unequivocably.

Israel is not alone in being especially supportive of a particular religion or culture ( even as it has no law that forbids a PM of any of the national religions). To be a state ( the only state) in which Judaism and Jews are protected was the whole point of the project.

There are numerous states which do stipulate a certain religion for the Head of State, most of those are Muslim countries; but add to that the U.K, Sweden, Denmark and Norway that stipulate that the Head of State has to belong to a particular denomination. Are these countries also 'apartheid' countries?

Malaysia is a more "apartheid" state which has practised a wholly discriminatory ethno-religious supremacy policy against its minorities for the last 5 decades - yet none of the the Social Justice warriors here have said a word against the country. Malaysia's minorities are greater in number and suffer far more injustice than Israel's - where is the great outcry?

I'm just posting this in responce to the OP because quoting a tweet which quotes something out of context is rarely useful.

So not posting this in anyway supporting JB but this is an article from an independent Jewish paper which has a rather different interpretation of what she said. (NB it is irriatating to read as it constantly uses they when referring to JB)

https://forward.com/culture/589334/judith-butler-israel-zionism-hamas/

Obviously this situation is a minefield because how you say things doesn't allow for the fact that words have so many different interpretations, particularly in relation to existing beliefs, politics of the listener / reader.

Look at the trouble that Million Women Rise have landed themselves in by posting the link to a statement from women's groups in the US.

Whatever they thought it was about, it has in fact led some women to assume that MWR is somehow a supporter of Hamas. Unfortunatley instead of clarifying or making their own statement, they have just turned comments off on the facebook page.

I know this is a rather parochial view but what's happening in Malaysia doesn't threaten security or harmony in the UK to quite the same extent.

And the political system of Israel does?

The twisting and turning is rather humorous isnt it?

It’s a racist apartheid ethnostate.

Even if that’s what you believe, nothing justifies rape and sexual assault as a way of pushing back against that, and nothing justifies minimising such actions as part of an “armed resistance.”

It’s not a belief it’s a provable fact. And it has nothing to do with what Hamas did. I can be upset about two things at once.

But you havent been upset about both things have you? You are here primarily to sock it to the jews murdered and raped.

If its nothing to do with what Hamas did, why are you posting it on a thread about what Hamas did? If you want to talk about how Israel and Israelis are the absolute worse there are plenty of threads about that, believe me.

That's partly because the British Left has always focused on Israel as the main repository for its ire. A lot of this ire is rooted in the history of Soviet anti semitism. The Jews can never be forgiven for prioritising their Jewish identity over their identity as 'International Socialists' and a commitment to the Russian motherland. But who could blame them given the number of pogroms they were subject to in Russia and the Pale - and Stalin's very thinly disguised Jew hatred.

Furthermore, Israel gained a lot of support from the U.S.A ( And American Jews) and of course, the U.S is always the enemy of the Left/Russia. The West is associated with 'capitalism' and 'imperialism' and Israel has come to embody ( even if most haters have little awareness of the reality of life in Israel) everything they oppose.

The 'International Socialists' - such as Jeremy Corbyn predicated their movement on joining forces with the Bathist parties of the Middle East ( Saddam Hussein led a Bathist party, for example) in the attempt to over-throw the various Arab monarchies, as well as western interests in the region.

Malyasia doesn't cut it - neither do any other of the world's conflicts.

Total ignorance. You are just repeating routine anti Israel mantras, I suggest, with little awareness or knowledge of what you are talking about.

I'd like to hear your detailed explanation of how and why you make thiis claim.

Yeh, and the moon is made of blue cheese and transwomen really are women.

I did. See above. Israel is a racist state, founded on racism that continues to be racist. It is an apartheid state because different people have different rights and treatment depending on their religion and ethnicity.

Israel is a racist, occupying, apartheid state that plays the constant victim whilst committing warcrimes on a yearly basis.

I don't subscribe to the concept of left and right and therefore I make up my own mind about different subjects. I completely support the rights of women over trans people and I don't support the existence of Israel in the place it is and the way it was created. I can explain both of these things for as long as you would like.

I actually stepped in to try and get this thread stopped because they always turn into a he said / she said pile of bullshit. You cannot view the October attacks in isolation, just like you can't view killing 30,000 Palestinians in isolation.

You can't view any of it that way and this thread is just making people angry with no resolution.

Does anyone remember in the film A Few Good Men where Tom Cruise’s character is sure that Jack Nicholson’s character is desperate to say that he ordered the Code Red and he’s pissed off he has to hide it?

That’s how I see this with Hamas’s acts of sexual violence. There are people who, bubbling just below the surface, are the words “they deserved it” because they hate Israel so much. They’re pissed off they can’t just come out and say it, but secretly they’re saying “well, what do you expect? If your government is a fascist racist state, gotta expect a bit of raping of your women from time to time eh?”

They’re pissed off they have to pretend to show concern for these women because it means they have to show criticism of Hamas and by default, agree with Israel on something. It burns them so much to do that. It’s utterly contemptible.

literally. Yes.

But - thats true - what exactly did Israel expect after kettling 2 million people for 15 years? Israel doesn't get to break international law ands expect no repercussions does it?

NOBODY IS IN THE RIGHT ANY MORE.

This is just a short list of reasons why people are fucked off with Israel

1. Occupation of Palestinian Territories: Following the 1967 Six-Day War, Israel occupied the West Bank, East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip. The international community, including the United Nations, generally considers these areas to be occupied territories and regards the Israeli settlements built there as illegal under international law, a view that Israel disputes.
2. Military Operations and Conflicts: Various military operations in the Gaza Strip and West Bank have been criticized for the high civilian casualties and destruction of property. Operations such as "Cast Lead" (2008-2009), "Pillar of Defense" (2012), and "Protective Edge" (2014) have led to significant loss of life and infrastructure damage in Gaza, raising concerns about proportionality and discrimination under international humanitarian law.
3. Blockade of Gaza: Since 2007, Israel, with Egypt, has imposed a blockade on the Gaza Strip, restricting the movement of goods and people. Critics argue this blockade amounts to collective punishment, which is prohibited under international law, and severely impacts the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
4. Settlement Expansion: The continued expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem has been widely criticized as illegal under international law, particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention, and as an obstacle to peace by diminishing the viability of a future Palestinian state.
5. Home Demolitions and Evictions: Israel has been criticized for the demolition of Palestinian homes in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, both as punitive measures and due to lack of building permits, which are extremely difficult for Palestinians to obtain. Critics argue this practice amounts to forced displacement.
6. Treatment of Prisoners: Allegations of mistreatment and torture of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli detention facilities have been raised by human rights organizations.
7. Violence and Use of Force: There have been numerous instances where the use of force by the Israeli military and police against Palestinians has been criticized as excessive or unjustified, including during protests and confrontations.
8. Restrictions on Movement: The system of checkpoints, barriers, and the separation wall built by Israel in the West Bank has been criticized for restricting the movement of Palestinians, affecting their access to employment, education, healthcare, and religious sites. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) advisory opinion in 2004 found that the construction of the wall in the occupied Palestinian territory was contrary to international law.

Except that is not true. Everyone has equal rights in Israel, including the 20% of the population that is Muslim. There are arab muslims in the Knesset and in every other walk of life. You have clearly never experienced what actual apartheid looks like in practice. Words are cheap, when you throw them around without any actual knowledge of what they mean.

There is no law in Israel that forbids a Muslim from becoming PM, yet there are laws in many other countries, mostly Muslim, which actually do forbid a leader other than a Muslim - and in which Christians, for example, are persecuted. See Pakistan as just one example.

Any future Palestinian state would be more of an ethno state than Israel ever has been. What Israel does do is protect the rights of jewish people and create an environment in which Judaism can flourish. It is Jewish supportive. The state itself is secular, though, which is why women have equal rights and gay people are not persecuted as they are in many religious countries.

i've a mind to report your post for flagrant hatred, but think it better for people to the ignorance that lies beneath the 'pro palestinian' hysteria. People chanting phrases they don't understand.

Jews have equal rights in Israel. Palestinians do not. Therefore it is a racist apartheid state.

Key points include the existence of different laws and mobility restrictions for Palestinians in the West Bank compared to Jewish settlers, the blockade of Gaza, citizenship rights that favor Jews (such as the Law of Return for Jews worldwide), and disparities in land ownership and access to resources.

Report away. You'll need to prove me wrong.

I actually stepped in to try and get this thread stopped because they always turn into a he said / she said pile of bullshit.

Nah. You stepped in because not everyone was buying your antisemitic, pro VAWG rhetoric.