Judith Butler describes the October 7 attacks by Hamas as "armed resistance"

[DerekFaker]

Just that really. One of the pioneers of gender identity bullshit sees nothing wrong with what Hamas did. Can't say I'm too surprised.

https://twitter.com/josephhirsch5/status/1764784098822750420?t=exEWstv0huUMaPvoUe_eGg&s=19

Armed resistance does not include raping toddlers. If it does, but then we talk of atrocities and terrorism, not armed resistance.

What colour do you think Israelis are, Alpharius?

When did Israel rape and murder children? And don't tell me they are arresting children for throwing stones, those children are young teenagers using sling-shots, which are capable of causing death.

The actions are not self-fulfilling consequences, but the consequences Hamas intended to unleash so that they would look like the injured party. Netanyahu is also to blame and it was clear before Oct 7th that many Israelis object to what he is doing and how he is running Israel.

Hmm. The killing of women and children and rape while completely unacceptable do happen in war. So I don’t think that alone excludes it from being a war.

I don't understand that mindset nor why Hamas thought it a reasonable response to rape and murder civilians. Organised rape, torture and murder are not acceptable in my book, whatever the circumstances. Only terrorists do that, but then, Hamas is a terrorist organisation.

This.
Egypt WILL NOT entertain the Notion of a mass influx of palestinians in the Sinai because they just managed to squash the (from their point of view anyway) troublemakers causing havoc there.

Other arabic countries are also very reluctant (read: are refusing) palestinian refugees, and some states have actively booted out large cohorts in the not too distant past.

Similar problem arose when there was the mass exodus of Syrian refugees. Only Turkiye accepted Syrians in any large amount, and mainly to replace their Kurdish population.

Israel is patently not killing every last palestinian, though they are brutal in their bombings and shootings - and it looks like it will sadly escalate if the International community does not step in in a meaningful way.

Many palestinians are now also pointing the finger against Hamas and their atrocious handling of this conflict.

It is terrible the suffering on Gaza now, absolutely heartbreaking.
But I am sadly not confident that Hamas actually wants a solution - and it looks like the Israeli war machine has gotten into a terrifying trajectory with awful violence.

However, The plight of the israeli civilians raped and killed on the 7 th October is in no way «justified» by the consequent actions of the state.

But Israel has not 'colonised' what, until 1920, was part of the Ottoman Empire. Jews have always lived there, bought land etc. The UN, once Britain gave up the mandate, decided that the Jewish settlers should rule the land they had owned and lived on for generations peacefully under the Ottomans (and Persians etc before that). This is not a colonization issue at all, it is a problem Nazi Germany, Eoka etc and Arab separatists have caused.

Israel is a racist, apartheid state that aligns different rights to people depending on the colour of their skin.

1. Legal Discrimination Claims: Critics argue that Israel's legal framework establishes discrimination against Palestinians. An often-cited example is the Nation-State Law, passed in 2018, which declares Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people. Critics say this law downgrades the status of Arabic and implicitly discriminates against non-Jewish citizens of Israel.
2. West Bank and Gaza Strip Conditions: The conditions in the West Bank, where Israeli military control is a fact of life for Palestinians, and the Gaza Strip, under a blockade enforced by Israel and Egypt, are cited as examples of apartheid-like conditions. Critics point to the separate legal systems for Israelis and Palestinians in the West Bank, restrictions on movement for Palestinians, and the ongoing settlement expansion as evidence of systemic discrimination.
3. Treatment of Palestinians: The treatment of Palestinians by Israeli authorities, including issues related to freedom of movement, residency rights, access to land and water, and political representation, is often cited as evidence of an apartheid system. Restrictions placed on Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and West Bank, as well as the different rights afforded to Jewish settlers in the West Bank, are central to these claims.
4. International Comparisons: Some critics draw parallels between Israel's treatment of Palestinians and the apartheid regime in South Africa, focusing on similarities like segregation, legal discrimination, and the control of one group over another based on ethnic or national identity. It's important to note, however, that others argue these comparisons are not accurate or appropriate, highlighting the unique aspects of the Israeli-Palestinian context.
5. International Legal and Human Rights Perspectives: Various human rights organizations and some international bodies have at times supported the apartheid analogy or accused Israel of practices that could amount to apartheid. These perspectives often focus on alleged systematic oppression and domination of Palestinians.

I agree about the ballot box problem but rape and murder are not a proper response.

Rape and murder happen during war. Rape is a war crime. I would call the current Gaza-Israel conflict a war. That it is a war does not excuse Hamas from organised rape, murder and torture, they are war crimes, not excused by war.

It's not apartheid on the basis of colour. Some Jews are black, some are Mediterranean in looks, some very Middle Eastern. It is apartheid on the basis of religion so both Muslims and Christians are thus discriminated against whatever the colour of their skin. Many Israelis have protested against the 1918 Act and marched against Netanyahu's government. It is the separatists on both sides who are causing a problem that could have been sorted fifty years ago.
As to the West Bank, it is under the jurisdiction of the West Bank Authority i.e. a different jurisdiction from Israel or Gaza. Different jurisdictions frequently have different laws from one another.

telling comments from Bibi here, even in jest.

twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1724452151055855852?t=Nhwc0dA7uQ0IYz1C-OZDrQ&s=19

Judith Butler is a terrible person. Adding excusing rape and murder to her list of terrible opinions is sadly unsurprising at this point.

Does Judith Butler believe that all Israelis are responsible for the actions of their government and military? Even the ones in the kibbutzim that were very anti-Netanyahu and sympathetic to their Palestinian neighbours?

If that's the case, then I imagine that she'd also believe it would have been acceptable for the IRA to rape and murder women in Milton Keynes or Brighton or South Shields? No? Surely that's just another form of armed resistance.

And yet when the IRA denotated a number of bombs that did kill civilians they lost mass amount of support even though supposedly the phone calls were just made too late. Maybe its because the victims weren't Jewish.

Some of the early Zionists were shaped by their experiences in Europe, and were in fact amongst some of the early Communist and other radical political thinkers. Europe had been through many transformations during the centuries the jews had lived there, and Christianity had been through an enlightenment. The ideals of democracy and liberalism - which are enshrined in the Israeli constitution - were absorbed and adopted. So, yes, the eariest PMs were mostly European refugees, but fewer so over time naturally, and now Likud - the ruling party - is predominantly Sephardic.

The sephardic and mizrahi population tends to be more conservative, I understand, than the secular Ashkenazi population.

Land purchases were made by the early zionists as early as the late 19C. Land was purchased from absentee Arab landlord who had done quite well out of the Ottoman empire. The early Zionists reclaimed much marshy land and made it fertile, and planted an entire forest

It is not apartheid when you have people of all resident religions in the Knesset, in the judiciary, the military and in every other walk of life, though. As there are.

Netanyahu's Likud government is contentious even in Israel - but the Israel state cannot be judged entirely on one of its governments. But the radicalisation of some Israelis also doesn't happen in a vacuum, and is one of the results of persistent denial of Israel's right to exist, the inftifadas, and the continuing jihad against it.

Again, calling it apartheid is just a way of turning a complex situation into good vs bad. Not accurate and helps no one.

Are you offering more context for rape? Thank you for showing your true colours.

You came to distract from rape apologia from a side you have picked. Congrats, you are an apologist for rape of women and children.

Torturing and raping women to death, torturing and burning children alive in front of their parents, none of that is resistance, it's a self-indulgent, sadistic rampage. It's vengeful people having fun. Can you imagine, say, any of the resistance movements in Occupied Europe wasting time and resources in raiding into Germany on a rape and murder spree? The only purpose of this attack was to infect the Israeli psyche with the constant threat of a truly terrible death, which is an all-too-familiar tactic men use to curtail women's freedom and enjoyment of the world.

I'm sick of women calling themselves feminists when all they do is act like the cronies of the nastiest and most intimidating of men. The likes of Judith Butler should have 'Do it to Julia!' as their slogan because it's how they live their lives.

Fascinating to see your repeated attempts to deny the brownness of the majority of the population of Israel and to portray them solely as a European interlopers. I really dont get involved in the I-P conflict (this thread is the only one in MN where I have expressed my views) and it is scary to see the monomania of the palestinian partisans. It is almost like something deep and ugly drives you lot. Please dont tell me it is dead babies, because there have always been dead babies elsewhere and it hasnt roused this much er, passion.

This is so horrific

Barbaric and medieval

There’ll always be posters on these threads excusing it sadly (SM is of extremes) but Butler is a shocker