Judith Butler describes the October 7 attacks by Hamas as "armed resistance"

[DerekFaker]

Just that really. One of the pioneers of gender identity bullshit sees nothing wrong with what Hamas did. Can't say I'm too surprised.

https://twitter.com/josephhirsch5/status/1764784098822750420?t=exEWstv0huUMaPvoUe_eGg&s=19

Rape is not resistance. Murdering children is not resistance.

Could you ever have imagined that you'd have to explain that to someone? On a bloody feminist board?

Hamas would cease to exist if there was peace. They're a bunch of thugs akin to IRA/UDF. Conflict gives them power.

I wouldn't say you could in any way conceive that a result of the October attacks the Palestinians would be in a better position.

Even if you thought some form of attack was necessary, targeting civilians including women and children with rape and brutality cannot be justified.

It's absolutely grotesque to decribe what they did as armed resistance. And childish - you don't need to decide who is good and who is bad in the conflict and pick a side. Both sides are trapped in horrible pain and trauma and fear of the other.

Could you ever have imagined that you'd have to explain that to someone? On a bloody feminist board?

I'd like to remind everyone that in the 50 years of Israeli occupation of Gaza, women have suffered just as much as the men. But it wasn't women who went and carried out vicious, sadistic assaults on 7 October.

So rape and beheading is an acceptable part of armed resistance?

Moofolk and HalebiHabibti - you need to give your heads a wobble

Hysterical hogwash.

So what's your limit? When would you start eating, torturing and murdering?

There wasnt a 50 year occupation. Facts are not optional. There was a an occupation from 1967 to 2005 following a massed Arab attack on Israel which failed. The current war was started by the "resistance" aka rapists and murderers whom quite a few women seem to fellate as heroes.

There is no nuanced response to mass, organised rape and torture. No way.

I had exactly the same thought when I saw this clip.

Just horror at her response. Absolute horror.

The return of jews to their homeland is conveniently termed european colonisation but many of you dont seem to advocate armed resistance against the European colonisers of Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the US. There are still renmant native tribes - want to pass the hat around for some rockets, machine guns and a rape squad?

Not in living memory, that's the difference

Also, it's not a jewish homeland, there's a 2,000 year gap. Just because it's written in the magic sky fairy book doesn't make it real.

Sorry for my part in the thread derail. Rape is despicable and rape apologists like Butler and several pp here are moral cretins.

Fact is no one is innocent in the Palestinian problem, except most of the civilians. It's an awful, bloody cycle of violence and revenge and it's not stopping any time soon. This thread won't solve it, or help anyone.

There were always jews in the ME. In historical records and census counts. In the Quran, magic fairy book extraordinaire, before being ethnically cleansed by the armies of you know who. That is why present day pro-palestine marchers chant, "Khayber, Khayber, Oh Jews, the army of Mohammed will return". You see a great number of a 1.5 billion community believe these magic stories as facts too.

Hardly comparable.

(1) As pointed out by another poster, the timescales are so different as to make those totally different kettles of fish; but
(2) There's a practical reason now why indigenous Australians & Americans won't ever be able to get [from their perspective] all that much justice via the ballot box, namely that there are too few of them/they're a tiny minority, for reasons that from their perspective range from bad [European immigration] to ruinously bad [massacres & disease]. But across Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza collectively, all places where Israel exerts a very high level of control, there's a Muslim majority population, which is prevented from getting justice at the ballot box by something that looks an awful lot like apartheid, which doesn't really wash in 2024.

We should all just shut up about an antisemitic and misogynist statement from someone who is considered a leading American intellectual?

So what kind of armed resistance is acceptable to you?

1. A bullshit timescale was produced. There majority of Israel's population are indigeous to the area jews who were dispalce after the creation of Israel - ie Mizrahi jews.
2. You are esssentially claiming that successful colonisations such as your colonisations need not be challenged. God forbid european hypocrisy is ever pointed out.
3. The conditions in occupied territories need a political solution. There is more recalcitrance on one side because of maximalist demands supported by western cretins and an ummah that is delusional (that magic story book again).

But we are discussing ONLY Judith Butler and rape of women and children : why is it so difficult for you to condemn just her comments and the rapists? Why "contextualise" rape?

So what were the people who were raped and murdered doing that makes them not just victims? What on earth could those kidnapped and murdered children have being doing to flatten Gaza?

Rape is not resistance. Murdering children is not resistance.

You’re right. Trouble is, when the same has been done to your women and children, it becomes part of the scarred landscape, and part of the cycle of revenge. It’s horrific and unacceptable, whoever commits those and countless other barbaric acts, but don’t pretend that members of the IDF have never raped or murdered Palestinian women and children, because they have.

I see. The Israeli women deserved to be raped because they (via their country's actions) were "asking for it".

Israel has not been " stamping" on anyone for 75 years. The 'Palestinian' identity was only created after the 1967 war by the PLO - and it was founded in the total refusal to accept a two state solution - hence the perpetual refugee status.

Many Palestinians have, in fact, relied on getting employment in Israel for many years - because the refusal to accept a two state solution means that there is no functioning state - and Palestinians are dependent on foreign aid to provide most of the services a state would, and should, provide for its citizens. Hamas and Fatah leaders get rich from corruption, and live materially privileged lives in luxury villas, if not on the West Bank, then in Turkey, Quatar or Jordan.

The perpetual victim/refugee status of the Palestinian people suits many of its leaders and they have no intention of seeking a peaceful solution.They care not about their own people, either -and have carried out summary executions over the years.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, removing all of its settlers...What did the Palestinians then do? They elected Hamas. Who immediately declared jihad against Israel and then started to fire missiles into Israel on a daily basis ( many of which misfire killing their own people). Suicide attacks, bus bombs, car ramming, stabbings and shootings of people in cafes and bus stops.

That is why there is security wall around Gaza, and is why Egypt also has a security wall, and why Egypt will not permit refugees into Egypt - even now.

c'mon, look up 'war crimes', geneva convention, hague law, whilst some items on the standard lists may be controversial most are not.