JKR vs IW

[ZeldaFighter]

Are we going to talk about this? I think JKR was feeling a bit grumpy today 😀

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/jk-rowling-india-willoughby-twitter-gender-b2507309.html

I am a bit worried that "naice" people will think JKR is being horrid.

Thanks @Helleofabore That was a very thorough and helpful explanation.

Thank you @Helleofabore , I know you've done it several times before and that suggestions never responds but it is valuable to see the debunking of that treasured report that suggestions pushes at every opportunity.

Excellent post @Helleofabore

Sorry, all, I recompiled it in a hurry. I hope it makes sense I am sure there is lots of repetition as I tore apart previous posts and tried to add better coherence. But I suspect I have made errors because I am in a hurry. I am off again.

The main take out is the claim:

But as I have said many times before, the countries in the world that are doing best for women are also those that are doing best for trans people.

The countries that score highest for women's wellbeing and parity with men are also the countries which have policies of self ID.

is not adequately measured by that World Economics report.

Because the countries in the top ranking are NOT actually doing 'best' for women based on the values collected. There are major inconsistencies because it measures 'gap' and not necessarily 'overall quality of life for female people'. And to call this report a measure of 'women's wellbeing' is inconsistent when you start to analyse what the reality is for women in those countries.

However, I don't remember Suggestions ever addressing the inconsistencies and never actually presents a coherent reason for the continued plonking that report down as some kind of reliable measure. It is actually rather ludicrous that they then made some remark about a pet project by a sociology student.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report

Are these the rankings?

Incidentally why was Rwanda so high in 2022?

Also Malta seems to be quite a long way down, which suggests (unsurprisingly) that Scandinavian social systems (and perhaps North Sea Oil wealth) are relevant to these figures, but self ID isn’t.

The main aim of the plonker doing the plonking was to derail the conversation from one not going well for their politics into a very well worn cul de sac where much cut and paste could substitute for any actual thought.

This person influencing the thinking of the CPS is truly chilling. I just do not understand, and never will, how anyone can think that a man, who has spent 50 years as a man, can in any way, shape or form be considered a spokesperson for women. It makes me want to weep.

On the other hand, as discussed, this in a court room would be highly entertaining and useful.

Of course it would take about 3 years to get into a court room. Bundles and so on. 9 million witnesses.

Don't forget the support animals Frood would have to sort the logistics on that otherwise it could end up very messy indeed.

The reports do not provide any measurement of or data concerning female safety, misogyny and male sexual violence against females.

In their statistics, does ‘women’ include transwomen (males), or not? They don’t seem to mention this at all. These days statistics using the terms man or woman are becoming meaningless as biological sex isn’t recorded.

I do not see definition of gender anywhere. Given that some people claim there are over 100 genders, this is quite strange.

There is no differentiation between sex and gender.

All sorts of holes in those reports. Absolutely nothing to see there, frankly.

‘As of March 2023, 11 countries have legal gender recognition procedures based on self-determination of the person: Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland.’ Poor women in those countries. Not that we would know ho the safety and comfort is affected, because -shocker - those reports don’t measure it or discuss it.

It will always be possible to highlight individual problems with data, there is no perfect measurement, no perfect analysis, no perfect evaluation; this is not in question.

There will always be a critique that highlights certain areas, a person that is motivated in one area, or another, to present an overall interpretation that bends to a certain perspective.

So what do you do then?

Do you take one person's critique for it (mine, or anyone else's here) ...or do you look for a broader analysis that has been arrived at by a collaborative of multiple experts in multiple fields and that is cited by governments and women's rights groups worldwide?

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, so I will do the latter. And I will trust that, broadly, a decent effort has been made to arrive at a measurement of, overall, how well women are doing are doing in different countries. And I will acknowledge that there are individual instances of problems, but this does not disrupt the overall big picture.

And the overall trend is this:...if you were to plot women's well-being and trans peoples well-being on different axes of a graph, and establish a scatter plot of corresponding data points on it, and then create a line of best fit through these points, you would clearly see an excellent correlation between the countries doing well for trans people and those doing well for women.

How would we do that, since that are simply recorded as 'women' in countries with self ID - we're constantly told its wrong to identify that group as anything else.

How would we analyse the stats?

Rubbish data helps no one, trans women included.

"...cited by governments and women's rights groups worldwide?"

Would those be 'women's' rights groups who think that TWAW?

Can we have a separate thread for this report and all the rebuttals?

Then every time it's pulled out it can all go on that thread/links can be shared. Rather than rehashing it all over again.

We’re not talking about interpretation of data.

The research to which you referred, simply does not include any data concerning female safety etc (I say etc as I elaborated more in my original comment).

But you know that.

Good idea

Thank you @Helleofabore 👏

Being a trans woman is a choice.

Being a woman is not.

In the Byline TV video, IW actually says the words, and I quote, "India Willoughby is a man"

At 11.54

https://byline.tv/video/jk-rowling-reported-to-police-for-misgendering-india-willoughby/

It's always worth noting the type of threads this report is regularly thrown into? It so often derails women speaking it seems. Funny that.

@Helleofabore

Hate to bother you, but do you have a copy of your excellent analysis upthread in an easy reader format, because I think some people are still failing to grasp what you have written………..

Did you not find that the Women, Peace and Security Index looked at these areas?

Of course, it is a consideration in these international studies to have objective (as far as possible) international comparators that can lead to accurate analysis.

If countries have different measurements of crime (especially in the sphere of domestic abuse where some countries are very strong in this area and other countries are very weak, in definition of crime and reporting of crime) this makes it very hard to analyse accurately, which is a challenge acknowledged in these efforts.

Are suggestions and Dadjoke the same person?

Does IW think IWD is a day designed to honour IW?

StealthSpinach · Today 10:10

10.2K likes…

It's improved.

Sorry. Was only 2/3rds of the way through the thread when I posted. I see the joke was already made.