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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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BoreOfWhabylon · 09/03/2024 14:51

Anyone else suddenly find themselves blocked by India?

Redpencil99 · 09/03/2024 14:56

JKR: Legend

JanesLittleGirl · 09/03/2024 14:56

As an indication of how meaningful the international tables for women's quality of outcomes is, Denmark has just lost valuable points because their long serving Queen has abdicated and they now have a King. I mean, nothing affects women like having a female monarch.

GailBlancheViola · 09/03/2024 14:58

Froodwithatowel · 09/03/2024 14:42

Doesn't it demonstrate though, if other people say no and refuse to create the illusion, it can't exist even in the mind of the person who created it.

It proves once and for all that validation is a key aspect, everyone must chant the mantra, everyone must believe the mantra or the whole edifice crumbles.

It was obvious on CBB just how fragile the edifice was and how it had to be propped up by others.

It is now crumbling because people are just refusing to do so and are less afraid than they were then thanks to Court cases, et al.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/03/2024 14:59

I've been blocked by India since about 2017 so wasn't me replying, gov!

GailBlancheViola · 09/03/2024 15:01

SabrinaThwaite · 09/03/2024 14:48

Perhaps Windy means ask for a review of the police decision not to prosecute? But doesn’t that only apply where the police have conducted interviews under caution ie a voluntary interview or once a suspect has been arrested?

Certain things about the statements I’m not happy with

Is that just stopping short of accusing someone of lying?

Well that's a turnaround - I though the Police were lovely and they were going to lodge an NCHI against JKR which proved, according to IW, that IW was right and ya boo sucks to JKR and IW was happy with that.

Redpencil99 · 09/03/2024 15:01

But this has been going on since the year dot by men to women. Islamophobia and antisemitism are being debated as becoming hate crimes arguably without any definition to them but when misogyny was proposed, which is absolutely definitely definable it was rejected as being already covered in law.

As if!

Waitwhat23 · 09/03/2024 15:02

SabrinaThwaite · 09/03/2024 14:22

The GC argument on the other hand needs to show that self-ID is detrimental to women.

In the Denmark example, what measures have been put in place to monitor the impacts of self ID on women and girls?

If it’s not being effectively measured you can’t prove it’s not detrimental to women and girls, can you?

Especially when women that do object to males in their spaces are accused of transphobia?

Why does the precautionary principle not apply to the safeguarding of women and children?

I'm fairly sure that a suggested amendment to the GRR Bill, which requested that the Scottish Government monitor the effects of the Bill on women and girls was voted down.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/03/2024 15:03

Excuse me? I’m very happy with who I am and I’m legally recognised as such.

Yes, about that legal recognition. You can have a piece of paper "legally recognising" you're Mahatma Gandhi but people are under no obligation to consider or say that you are.

That's all a GRC is, a piece of paper with a lie on it, and I believe you don't even have that.

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/03/2024 15:06

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/03/2024 14:51

Anyone else suddenly find themselves blocked by India?

I can't understand how them "can't reply under tweets" - hasn't them got 90% of the world blocked?

Emotionalsupportviper · 09/03/2024 15:08

Waitwhat23 · 09/03/2024 15:02

I'm fairly sure that a suggested amendment to the GRR Bill, which requested that the Scottish Government monitor the effects of the Bill on women and girls was voted down.

If that's right it's fecking disgraceful! - and it says everything.

JayAlfredPrufrock · 09/03/2024 15:08

He blocked me within an hour of following him.

<sad face>

I’d love to see what he’s saying …

SabrinaThwaite · 09/03/2024 15:11

Waitwhat23 · 09/03/2024 15:02

I'm fairly sure that a suggested amendment to the GRR Bill, which requested that the Scottish Government monitor the effects of the Bill on women and girls was voted down.

It’s almost as if monitoring the impact of self ID on women and children would give them an answer they didn’t like?

Redpencil99 · 09/03/2024 15:14

But "misgendering" isn't even a legal thing, it's just something people (males) have picked up on to use as a weapon against other people (females)

SabrinaThwaite · 09/03/2024 15:15

JayAlfredPrufrock · 09/03/2024 15:08

He blocked me within an hour of following him.

<sad face>

I’d love to see what he’s saying …

It’s the same old same old.

Ricky Gervaise gets an honourable mention alongside JKR, the Government, the Media and GCs.

Crankywiddershins · 09/03/2024 15:21

suggestionsplease1 · 09/03/2024 13:06

Well when you're dealing with multiple measures collected in hundreds of different ways for populations numbering in the hundreds of millions I can't say I really have the time to write it all out for you.

But if you want to make some specious, fatuous (and obviously incorrect) point that suddenly huge numbers of men are being counted in figures for women because you can't cope with, deal with or begin to attempt to answer the substantial issue that the countries doing best for women are also the ones doing the best for trans people ...well I guess that's on you.

You can't be bothered to read it but expect us to do so and then answer your questions. Bore off you tedious little Grote.

Crankywiddershins · 09/03/2024 15:24

WallaceinAnderland · 09/03/2024 13:48

Time to stock up on popcorn. Hopefully there's more to come.

I’ve had 1,000s of abusive messages - including death threats - following JK Rowling’s tweets. I am a woman - legally recognised as such. AND I have a protected characteristic. Transphobia is just not taken seriously. Any other minority, different story. I will be appealing.

https://twitter.com/IndiaWilloughby/status/1766451889057493158

(I'm referring to the appeal obviously, not death threats!)

India? Appealing? Not two words I'd have expected to see together.

TheGreatGherkin · 09/03/2024 15:26

@suggestionsplease1
I take it that you haven't seen the article about the rather large increase in Spanish men taking advantage of self id?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/03/2024 15:32

Haha is it the hackneyed old tables again?

Crankywiddershins · 09/03/2024 15:37

SabrinaThwaite · 09/03/2024 14:39

Is it a pink bobble hat?

Please please please can we make it a pussy hat?

Helleofabore · 09/03/2024 15:37

Here are a modified copy and paste of questions and issues dating back to mid September 2023 that you never seemed to even read. You certainly never clarified your understanding of how this report works.

www.weforum.org/publications/global-gender-gap-report-2023/

Start.

Here are the values that drive the algorithm for WEF Gender Gap report:

Economic Participation and Opportunity
Labour-force participation rate %
Wage equality for similar work 1-7 (best)
Estimated earned income int'l $ 1,000
Legislators, senior officials and managers %
Professional and technical workers %

Educational Attainment
Literacy rate %
Enrolment in primary education %
Enrolment in secondary education %
Enrolment in tertiary education %

Health and Survival
Sex ratio at birth %
Healthy life expectancy

Political Empowerment
Women in parliament %
Women in ministerial positions %
Years with female/male head of state (last 50)

If a male declares themselves a female as an MP, that country will rise up the index. Imagine that.... that Political Empowerment could be driving force for a country to be considered a champion of 'women's gendered' rights...

What relevance do any of the above values have to do with Self ID? I have asked this previously and I don’t believe I received a reply.

Besides the relevance, here are some major inconsistencies

This is not an assessment on ‘how well women are doing in general in a country’, but on whether female people are doing as well as male people in a particular country?

How come in 2022 Rwanda got to be sixth on this list when it is a country that is in the bottom 50 countries for women dying in childbirth? When they have an entire section dedicated to 'Health & Survival'?

Here is why.

Trying to use this list for saying ‘these countries with self ID are rating well for female people’ is a falsehood. This report does not measure the issues that relate to self ID. That being safety primarily.

That a country may have a low attainment in education overall, but that female people are doing just as POORLY as male people. It is an index of GENDER GAPS. IF A COUNTRY TREATS ITS MALE POPULATION AS BADLY AS IT DOES ITS FEMALE POPULATION IT RATES HIGHLY! Ie. If the men are dying early, the ‘gap’ is considered closed if the female population are also dying early. This is hardly consistent with ‘These countries are treating their female population well’.

Trying to use this list for saying ‘these countries with self ID are rating well for female people’ is a falsehood. This report does not measure the issues that relate to self ID. That being safety primarily.

And to do that requires every person reading your posts to ignore all the obvious fucking discrepancies in it. And ignore the glaring fucking obvious fact that there are some fucking doozies in the list after the countries you wish to lionise.

Note to readers: I am sure you don't need to be reminded... but always look further at the data including at the countries that Suggestions want you to focus on while ignoring the others. And always look at how the data is pulled and shaped into such an index.

Rwanda was in the Top 10 last year. How does any person think Rwanda is a great place for female people and yet, they were in the Top 10!

Measurement of Violence against women and girls should be one of the main focuses to evaluated whether self ID is impacting women and girls or not. Provided a country is measuring MALE violence being perpetrated by all MALE people and not recording some male people as female people.

For example, how does NZ with such an appalling record in violence against women and children hang in there in the Top 5? Partly because they had a female PM. I would expect NZ to drop in 2024 because they no longer have a female head of state. Because.... ta da... having a female head of state is one of the measures that is considered in the algorithm in creating this. This is a major, major part of what they use for the 'Political Empowerment' information.

In fact, expect ITALY to go skyrocketing up this index in 2024! Because female head of state features pretty heavily in the values above. This is really a very poor measure of how well women are doing in general in a country in any case. It is too simplistic.

So, getting back to that VAWAG, how was it in 2022 that Namibia, Nicaragua and Rwanda with women not even bothering to report violence against them to be even registered are in the Top 10? In 2023, Nicaragua and Namibia are still in the top 10 with Rwanda now at 12th.

But remember, this is a report that measures the GAP. So if it is a country that has poor expectations for male people, it will report a good result for female people if they also have poor expectations. It fails to address major and specific safety issues that will be impacted by Self ID. This is a completely irrelevant measure for judging the impact of Self ID.

Hell, this year's report noted that MALTA had a substantial jump in women in Parliament . MALTA! It jumped 15 places this year ! I mean it is number 70 still, but was rewarded by that jump of 15 places.

LinkedIN

They compile 'gender equality' data based on roles using "LinkedIn' information. They are not detailing what % of the workplace they think this covers, or what % of people keep this up to date or what % increase in 'female people taking on roles' is just women joining LinkedIn for the first time or updating their profile.

I certainly haven't plugged in my 'skills' etc on LinkedIn, yet, this is what they are using. It will certainly bias countries who rely on LinkedIn for recruitment won't it? In fact... it will certainly produce a bias to women who are in positions in Multi national organisations or in any organisation that they feel benefits from them having some kind of LinkedIn profile. And forget about the women who have experienced a lifetime of negative sexist discrimination and don't publish that they are female in their employment profiles. All those other women, nah... you don't get counted. (I have quite a few female friends in senior management positions who do not use LinkedIn at all, so it is rather a hit or miss measure in my experience)

They are not using government collated, checked and published sources. Why not?

Just to recap on why LinkedIn is a poor substitute for government checked data:

WEF is measuring supposedly as two categories the economic power of women and the education levels of women. LinkedIn benefits women in professional roles significantly more than women in manual labour roles, roles of close to minimum wage and roles that are not permanent full time amongst many other role descriptions.

Hell, LinkedIn requires literacy and actual access to capture the experiences of those women! And clearly, it will therefore exclude large swathes of women and girls.

Therefore: the data pulled from LinkedIn is biased and skewed.

LinkedIn is fully self reported about education and employment details. These two areas have been long known to be lied about to gain job roles. LinkedIn is therefore more unreliable because it is also likely to be an over statement of skills, roles and education. I mean who doesn’t over state their skills, job roles etc when there is a chance to, just a small positive tweak here or there to people outright lying.

Therefore: unreliable data

LinkedIn also cannot check sex of candidate.

Therfore: unreliable data.

Even in progressive countries female people in senior roles don’t use LinkedIn for many various reasons. They may have a base profile started right at the beginning but have not updated it due to privacy concerns. They may not wish to publish the fact that they are female in San industry known to be hugely sexist. Many reasons exist. These women will not be captured by this data.

Therefore : unreliable data.

What has linkedIn data got to do with how well the female population of a country is doing when Self ID is introduced anyway?

While this is report maybe a useful tool for some people, it simply does not represent what Suggestions keep telling everyone it represents. What is bizarre, is the adherence to posting it on thread after thread as some kind of fucking gotcha.

Helleofabore · 09/03/2024 15:40

Here is some indication again, as to why the World Economic forum gender gap is really an irrelevant measure of how well 'women are doing in countries with self ID'. I will post this as an example, it is some information about Iceland.

This is what UNWomen said about Iceland:

Globally, some progress on women’s rights has been achieved. In Iceland, 91.7% of legal frameworks that promote, enforce and monitor gender equality under the SDG indicator, with a focus on violence against women, are in place. The adolescent birth rate is 5.3 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 as of 2018, down from 6 per 1,000 in 2017. As of February 2021, 39.7% of seats in parliament were held by women.

However, work still needs to be done in Iceland to achieve gender equality. In 2018, 2.8% of women aged 15-49 years reported that they had been subject to physical and/or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner in the previous 12 months.

And look at this feminist's experience in Iceland!

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/20/europe/iceland-domestic-violence-intl-cmd/index.html

From the article:

On paper, Iceland is a great place to be a woman. For 12 years running, it has been crowned the world’s top place for gender equality by the World Economic Forum.

It has world-leading equal pay and anti-discrimination laws. Women hold 47% of the seats in its Parliament and make up 46% of the boards of Icelandic companies.

Childcare is heavily subsidized and available to all. Maternity healthcare is free.

But for Árnadóttir and many other women struggling to see justice done, Iceland’s portrayal as a feminist paradise is a far cry from reality – far enough to take the country to court.

The lawsuit, launched in March, was coordinated by several Icelandic NGOs, including Stígamót, a non-profit that campaigns against domestic and sexual violence and provides counseling for survivors.

Steinunn Guðjónsdóttir, Stígamót’s spokesperson and fundraising manager, told CNN the group reviewed a number of recent cases of alleged violence against women that had been dismissed by the police or prosecutors, and found that the victims’ rights had allegedly been violated in several of them.

gosh.... if her boyfriend was actually investigated and jailed and then decided he was a woman.... would Iceland prison service put an abusive male in a female prison...

‘The world’s best place to be a woman’ is being sued for misogyny | CNN

The bruises on Maria Árnadóttir’s body were numerous, ranging in color from pale yellow to deep purple.

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/12/20/europe/iceland-domestic-violence-intl-cmd/index.html

Helleofabore · 09/03/2024 15:42

Here is some more about Nicaragua.

https://borgenproject.org/womens-rights-in-nicaragua/

WOMEN’S RIGHTS IN NICARAGUA

Violence Against Women
In Nicaragua, violence against women in the form of abuse is one of the most serious social issues that the country faces. Among married women in Nicaragua, 52% have reported cases of spousal abuse, with a median duration of five years. Additionally, 21% of these women reported an overlap between both emotional and sexual violence, with 31% of these women being sexually and/or violently abused during their pregnancy.

Needless to say, these statistics are disheartening and scary. With such high rates of abuse around the country, there seems to be little or no hope for Nicaraguan women to escape this abusive cycle. However, there are several organizations that have contributed to the decrease of sexual abuse in southern countries, such as Self-Help International. It is the largest global organization that works to prevent torture and abuse of all sorts by educating and empowering women in developing countries. Misinformation about abusive relationships is very common among Nicaraguan women. Organizations like this allow women to escape this kind of relationship.

The Gender Gap
The Human Development Report has ranked Nicaragua 124 out of 189 countries based on Gender Equality Index in 2017. Additionally, women are more likely to face poverty in Nicaragua than men. With facts like these, it is evident that there is a disparity between men and women in Nicaragua.

Family members are often the ones who push women in Nicaragua to the sex trafficking industry. Additionally, 28% of Nicaraguan women give birth before they are 18, which is mostly due to sexual violence. This is the issue of society not discouraging violence against women.

Women’s Rights and Poverty
The 2016 poverty rate in Nicaragua was 24.9% with an average salary being $265. A large number of women in Nicaragua experience pregnancy at a young age. They usually stay at home and care for their children rather than working and garnering an income. However, the income that their male counterparts provide for their families is frequently insufficient. In fact, about 78% of households in Nicaragua live in ‘substandard’ conditions, the highest rate in all of Latin America.

This problem returns to the roots of the gender gap and women’s treatment in Nicaragua. It means that the cycle of women having children at a young age and caring for them with a low household income will only continue across the years, even affecting future generations. This means that one of the most important places to start with solving this problem is encouraging education about abuse.

Solutions
Though there are certain difficult cases that prevent the maximum execution of women’s rights in Nicaragua, hope still exists for the country. With a declining number of abuse cases due to the exposure of organizations like Self-Help International, women’s rights in Nicaragua are beginning to solidify. Self-Help has been working to solve global issues like hunger and poverty since 1999, and it provides education and opportunities for women in these countries. In 2019, Self-Help was able to offer clean drinking water to 3,600 Nicaraguan residents in nine communities. With this preceding success, it is likely that Self-Help’s initiative to alleviate the women’s rights issues in Nicaragua will quickly gain traction.

Self-Help is currently working on a project to educate and empower 200 Nicaraguan women through workshops and microloans. This could lead to a reduction in young women entering and staying in abusive relationships. It is the success of the organizations like this one that can bring hope to women and influence the policymakers when spreading awareness about women’s rights.

Though Nicaragua’s statistics regarding women’s rights and abuse are not yet within positive measures, the work of NGOs should result in the improvement of conditions for women in Nicaragua over the next decades.

– Andra Fofuca

Kind of hard to see how the World Economic Forum is a great measure of how safe women are in their countries at all, let alone with Self ID.

I have no idea about the source, the fact is that we should all be checking what it says for factual accuracy anyway.

This is what UNwomen say about Nicaragua:

Globally, some progress on women’s rights has been achieved. In Nicaragua, as of February 2021, 48.4% of seats in parliament were held by women. In 2012, 89.8% of women of reproductive age (15-49 years) had their need for family planning satisfied with modern methods.

However, work still needs to be done in Nicaragua to achieve gender equality. 35.2% of women aged 20–24 years old who were married or in a union before age 18. The adolescent birth rate is 102.6 per 1,000 women aged 15-19 as of 2018, down from 106.4 per 1,000 in 2017. In 2018, 6.4% of women aged 15-49 years reported that they had been subject to physical and/or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner in the previous 12 months.

This is what it said about Iceland:

Globally, some progress on women’s rights has been achieved. In Iceland, 91.7% of legal frameworks that promote, enforce and monitor gender equality under the SDG indicator, with a focus on violence against women, are in place. The adolescent birth rate is 5.3 per 1,000 women aged 15–19 as of 2018, down from 6 per 1,000 in 2017. As of February 2021, 39.7% of seats in parliament were held by women.

However, work still needs to be done in Iceland to achieve gender equality. In 2018, 2.8% of women aged 15-49 years reported that they had been subject to physical and/or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner in the previous 12 months.

Perhaps Suggestions might address just what it is about the WEF index that will be impacted by 'self ID' ?

What is collected that will show the success or not of 'Self ID'?

I mean, I don't expect an actual answer, Readers, I don't think a coherent explanation has been given before.

Crankywiddershins · 09/03/2024 15:52

@Helleofabore thanks for all your work. Great stuff!

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