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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
14
Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2024 00:41

No, popebishop’s right.

Acceptance without exception & the total lack of gatekeeping that goes with it means that Scott was just as much a transwoman as India Willoughby, Paris Lees or Shon Faye. You can’t separate them out by degrees of transness. They’re all part of the same group.

I agree with this, not sure why people disagreed with @popebishop - all of these males are as much "woman" as any other of them.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/03/2024 00:42

Sorry, see you've all agreed now.

Sconenjam · 01/03/2024 00:48

Good riddance to him. The world is a safer place for women and girls.

Zyq · 01/03/2024 01:34

lifeturnsonadime · 29/02/2024 19:22

Good, he was vile. No longer a risk to women.

No longer a risk to people. It appears that most of the victims in recent years were male.

NoMoreLifts · 01/03/2024 02:14

Zyq · 01/03/2024 01:34

No longer a risk to people. It appears that most of the victims in recent years were male.

Presumably that's partly circumstantial, though. As he was in a male prison.

Moremorela · 01/03/2024 02:52

‘Last year Scott was flanked in the dock of a courtroom by seven guards as they faced further prison guard assault raps.’

all his name now. No ‘she’s’ or they’d’ apart from this one which confused me - naughty prison guards!
well done to the people that protested against him being in a woman’s prison.

TathingScinsel · 01/03/2024 03:33

At least the teenage girl he stalked from inside prison will feel a lot safer now.

Obvs we have to wait for an official release of info but I can’t help but wonder if this could be an accidental lethal force situation? Scott was incredibly violent and seemingly took great delight in terrorising those tasked with looking after him.
Must’ve taken multiple people to restrain him once he got going, and even the most professional and experienced staff are likely to find themselves pushed into a self defensivemode?

Whatever happened I hope it gets throughly investigated and the findings are made public - 32 year olds shouldn’t be unexpectedly dying in custody, no matter what crime they committed, and equally, those who are employed to work with violent criminals shouldn’t have their own lives put at risk.

As for his surviving relatives, perhaps they will mourn the lost little boy whilst also being relieved that the man is no longer a danger to anyone else? Grief is a complex emotion and it’s possible to be both sad and glad when someone dies.

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/03/2024 05:48

I can’t believe the prison service ordered 3 female officers to be to carry out a strip search after the attack on the nurse and grown men needing to protect themselves with what sounds like riot gear. There really is no sense left. I really do hope this death was just natural causes otherwise there will be an outcry that this person would still be alive if housed in a woman’s prison without considering that members of a female prison or prison officers may not.

Bosky · 01/03/2024 06:17

Archived 29 Feb 7pm - "she": https://archive.is/NVS9p

Archived 29 Feb 8:22pm - "they" and "he": https://archive.is/7jYj8

I would love to know what happened after it first appeared online and how quickly the changes were made.

Wonder what the print version says?

People can be convinced that they are the opposite sex (or a Puffin or Napoleon) because they are psychotic, which sounds rather as if it might be true of Scott.

Psychiatric Comorbidity of Gender Identity Disorders: A Survey Among Dutch Psychiatrists
American Journal of Psychiatry - 1 Jul 2003

Extract

Personality, mood, dissociative, and psychotic disorders were the most often reported psychiatric conditions comorbid with gender identity disorder. In about half of the cases that were reported, cross-gender confusion was regarded as an epiphenomenon of other illnesses. Although psychiatrists probably see a self-selected group of patients with cross-gender confusion (those with psychiatric problems would be more likely to visit a psychiatrist), these results underline the need for education of general physicians about psychiatric comorbidity of cross-gender identification.

Our findings also underline the need for articulated diagnostic rules in this area. A nontrivial proportion of our respondents felt that the current DSM-IV gender identity disorder criteria are not strict enough. These respondents indicated that other psychiatric disorders that may explain the cross-gender symptoms should be ruled out before considering a diagnosis of gender identity disorder. There is evidence suggesting that persistent cross-gender identification may occur in psychotic patients. In such cases, the cross-gender confusion appears to be entirely attributable to the misperception of reality that is typical for psychotic disorders (1218).

Our results, together with anecdotal reports about gender identity disorder misdiagnoses, indicate that it may be fruitful to consider reinstatement of an exclusion criterion that cross-gender symptoms should not be attributable to other psychiatric disorders such as schizophrenia. The current DSM criteria allow for a situation in which gender identity disorder and schizophrenia “may coexist” in a patient (DSM-IV, p. 537). One of our respondents said, “When a patient has an acute psychotic episode, I wouldn’t dare to diagnose gender identity disorder.”

The fact that psychosis is mentioned relatively often as a comorbid problem of gender identity disorder also calls for a very careful evaluation of the benefits and risks involved in lowering the starting age for sex-adjustment treatment. The more florid symptoms of psychotic disorders generally do not emerge until adolescence and early adulthood. Confusion about one’s identity, body image aberrations, and the wish to drastically change one’s appearance (e.g., references 21, 22), however, may become manifest before actual psychotic breakdown occurs, as was the case in our hormonally treated psychotic patient (12). Discussions about the proper age for starting sex reassignment therapy should take into account the far-reaching consequences of misclassifying psychotic patients’ cross-gender confusion as gender identity disorder. Thus, in order to assess reliably the nature of the expressed desire to change gender, it may be necessary to wait until early adulthood before sex reassignment therapy becomes a safe option. We feel that independent committees that monitor and evaluate referrals to sex reassignment therapies would be of benefit in this area. Psychiatrists should be well represented on such committees.

https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.160.7.1332

It is a good reason why there is psychiatric "gatekeeping" to determine who gets to buy a Gender Recognition Certificate in England, Wales and Northern Ireland and/or get prescribed cross-sex hormones or a referral for surgery.

The psychiatrist is supposed to make a differential diagnosis between psychosis, gender dysphoria aka transsexualism, autism, "not ready" for transition and someone making it up for an ulterior motive, eg. because they are homosexual (transmaxxers?) or because they are a paedophile who thinks (correctly) that it will make it easier to get access to children. (It does not say that the paedophiles were male but they obviously were because someone legally or apparently female would have greater ease of access to children than someone legally male.)

In expectation that this post might be reported if I do not back up that example with evidence, here is some research:

Gender reassignment: 5 years of referrals in Oxfordshire
The Psychiatrist (British Journal of Psychiatry Bulletin), Royal College of Psychiatrists)
02 January 2018

Abstract

Aims and method
To evaluate the characteristics of individuals seeking gender reassignment, the frequency of subsequent referrals to a specialist centre, and funding approval. Cases were identified from a local referrals database and data were extracted from case notes.

Results
Fifty-four individuals attended for assessment; 70% were biological males and 30% were biological females. Mean age at referral was significantly different between the two groups. Over half were taking hormone supplementation and three had already had surgery. Further, 24% had a current and 30% a past mental illness. The majority of individuals were referred to a specialist centre for gender reassignment but only two had funding for surgery approved. Paedophilia was a rare but concerning finding.

Clinical implications
Psychiatric assessment plays an important role in confirming transsexualism and in identifying other relevant diagnoses.

Results

(Extract)

"Reasons for non-referral to a specialist centre included being deemed not ready for transitioning (either determined by the individual or because the person was not currently living in the desired gender role), being homosexual but not having gender identity disorder, having an autism-spectrum disorder with a significant degree of impairment such that the real-life experience criterion was not met, and seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia."

(NB: None of the subjects in this sample happened to be diagnosed as psychotic)

Discussion

(Extract)

"We have been unable to identify any previous literature describing individuals seeking gender reassignment as a means of normalising their paedophilia, but this is clearly a concerning finding."

(That sentence is significant because it demonstrates that the researchers did not have expect to identify paedophiles and therefore there is no suggestion of confirmation bias.)

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E

The SNP, Scottish Greens and the Labour Party in Scotland do not care if dangerously psychotic individuals or paedophiles get to "Self-ID" their way into changing their legal sex.

Relevant current thread:

More Trouble for Gender GP

NitroNine · Yesterday 14:20

It’s the SE London CCG that’s issued the warning rather than a body for SE England. That is still 1.9 million people in the London Boroughs of Bexley, Bromley, Greenwich, Lambeth, Lewisham & Southwark.

CheeseChamp · Yesterday 14:46

Through a previous line of work I had a small interaction that stays with me and could be relevant. Southwark has a very high proportion of residents with mental health needs compared to elsewhere - previous residents of Maudsley psychiatric hospital tend to come out of there and get housed in Southwark. For example there are a high amount of residents who are hoarders. Perhaps they are faster on the uptake as the numbers suddenly identifying as trans are higher than elsewhere? Just speculation.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5018338-more-trouble-for-gender-gp?reply=133400883

Gender GP services include recommending medication, prescribing medication and referral for surgery:

https://www.gendergp.com/help-centre/gendergp-service-costs/ 

Gender GP does not say who is on their "team" or what qualifications they have. Nothing at all about them. However, it is clear from this blogpost that they think that the involvement of psychiatrists is not just unnecessary, it is a bad thing.

Why We Need To End Gatekeeping
18 May 2021
https://www.gendergp.com/why-we-need-to-end-gatekeeping/

Archived: https://archive.ph/M8UvM

Andrew Burns aka Tiffany Scott was unlikely to be ever had recourse to Gender GP as he only started identifying as a woman when in prison (the old "Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria" POGD Scam).

Other men living in the community with severe psychiatric conditions and or who are paedophiles do though, without any Psychiatric Gatekeeping to ensure that they do not get access to hormones and surgery.

All the people who say, "As long as they get their cocks cut off . . . they can call themselves women, they can get a bit of paper to call themselves women, etc." - tell them to read the Oxford study so they appreciate that some men are prepared to get castrated if it will make it easier for them to get access to children to sexually abuse.

That idiot Shona "There is no evidence that predatory and abusive men have ever had to pretend to be anything else to carry out predatory and abusive behaviour" Robinson MSP should be made to write the whole study out again and again until she finally gets the message!

Gender Recognition Reform Bill: Predatory, abusive men like the paedophile who stole my soul will exploit proposed legislation – Susan Dalgety
The Scotsman - 5th Mar 2022
https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/abusive-men-will-exploit-proposed-new-gender-recognition-law-susan-dalgety-3596504

Archived: https://archive.is/nsxmn

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E

Tiddlywinks63 · 01/03/2024 06:22

Rainbowshit · 29/02/2024 19:22

Women will now be safer. Good riddance.

Bloody good job although it’s a pity he didn’t serve his sentence. Revolting creature.

Dontcallmescarface · 01/03/2024 06:31
Never Mind Oh Dear GIF by Harborne Web Design Ltd

This

Elephantswillnever · 01/03/2024 06:40

I really cant be sorry about this. I suspect in years to come he’d of reapplied to a woman’s prison and probably been successful. Outcry would of died down etc.

Its a shame in a way he probably had potential but for whatever reasons he was warped. Be interesting to see what he died of, does seem fitting that such a violent man would have a violent end.

AuContraire · 01/03/2024 06:55

Baffling why the media decided to change the "she" to "they" in the article about Tiffany, when he been identifying as a woman for at least 5 years now (I've certainly been aware of him that long).

And why is the BBC article opening with "A violent transgender prisoner" rather than "a woman" like they did with Scarlet Blake, who is also a dangerous, violent man.

Tiffany has never killed anyone (as far as I know), but Blake has, and tortured and killed a cat. So it can't be a "this trans person is too dangerous to be called she" thing, or Blake would fail that criteria, being a murderer and all.

Anyway, I'm glad Isla Bryson put the kabosh on Tiffany's move to the female estate that the Scottish Prison Service had approved (in line with Scottish Gov policy). If Tiffany had been moved then he'd still be alive, and some women would be dead instead.

Helleofabore · 01/03/2024 07:00

popebishop · 29/02/2024 22:39

This person was no more or less trans than anyone else who says 'I am trans' - that's what we are told by TRAs as to what being trans is. There is no external assessment to 'prove' you're transgender, unless you get a GRC in which you have to 'live as a woman', which, again, has no actual criteria (I believe changing your name or gender on forms is sufficient).

I'm happy to listen to your arguments that only the nice harmless people are really trans, and if we create policies that allow anyone IDing as women into female spaces that then go on to cause harm, Whoops! Well it doesn't count as they weren't really trans.

But if you think there are levels of people who are really TW and people who are pretending you will need to explain what the difference is and why it matters.

Yep bore off. He was a very violent men who was due to be transferred to women’s prison according to reports

Right. And you think this means we're all getting our knickers in a twist about TW unreasonably because you think this person wasn't one? I don't think you do actually mean that.

Again - I'm arguing against the posters who are saying 'TS wasn't really trans'. Why? How? How do we stop people pretending to be trans, because surely that's a massive issue? Will we actually need to come up with some kind of criteria when letting males into women's spaces? What would that look like?

Ah pope. The personal dissonance that some posters must be able to cope with is far higher than I can or you can. I have seen so many people recently bring out the ‘those male people’ are not really trans, when it comes to those committing sex crimes. Some people seem to then double down and declare that it is personal belief and stop trying to change it when you try and untangle the logic.

Some people really don’t like to have a mirror put up so the consequences of their personal belief is reflected back at them.

pickledandpuzzled · 01/03/2024 07:19

Steady now, this is another one of those people who deserve the courtesy and respect we accord everyone else. Just like Scarlett, preferred pronouns must be used. We don’t add rudeness and discourtesy on top of their prison sentence as that would be an extra punishment.

I think that’s what Adam was saying, anyway. Vivienne should listen.

Mrsjayy · 01/03/2024 07:28

IcakethereforeIam · 29/02/2024 19:38

Must have been a rapid rewrite. It was all 'she' when I read it a few minutes ago.

it wasn't she at all I read that very article last night there was no she I mean you
maybe read it as she an assumption. and on the TV news there was no she said. I they are no loss but let's not get carried away.

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 07:31

Mrsjayy · 01/03/2024 07:28

it wasn't she at all I read that very article last night there was no she I mean you
maybe read it as she an assumption. and on the TV news there was no she said. I they are no loss but let's not get carried away.

The Record article is archived above and has 'she' all the way through.

WomaninBoots · 01/03/2024 07:50

Ah look, a tot of pure gaslight for the OP. Tasty.

Helleofabore · 01/03/2024 07:51

ArabellaScott · 01/03/2024 07:31

The Record article is archived above and has 'she' all the way through.

Ah Archive sites are amazing!

WomaninBoots · 01/03/2024 08:01

I'm not sure about the absolute true believers but I do think that many Be Kind supporters of the trans ideological movement are so generally privileged that they haven't even contemplated the existence of men like Tiffany, Isla and Blake. They just think they're letting their "lovely" trans pals feel more comfortable in the world and haven't thought about the consequences. (I mean they're being played for fools even there, lovely men don't trample of women's boundaries but that's another story). When these men crop up and they run smack into the consequences of their stance the dissonance is strong and you get that instant dismissal... "not really trans". But then they can't produce the criteria to define trans because it has become "anyone, but only the right sort of person, who says they are" and they see the innate snobbery in that and get stuck.

The only logical way out is no males at all in women's spaces but that's unthinkable. So, scrabble scrabble, go the mental gymnastics trying to sort it out. You won't get there...

lifeturnsonadime · 01/03/2024 08:05

Zyq · 01/03/2024 01:34

No longer a risk to people. It appears that most of the victims in recent years were male.

Yet he was trying, and very almost succeeded, in getting housed in the women's prisons estate.

He was very much a risk to women.

lifeturnsonadime · 01/03/2024 08:07

As someone else mentioned upthread. I hoped he is not used as an example of why violent men who say they are women should be housed with women.

I wouldn't put anything past the TRAs.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 01/03/2024 08:07

This is a screenshot of a sticker that a New Zealand activist was selling. It applies just as much to Scott as anyone else.

Tiffany Scott has died in prison
Boiledbeetle · 01/03/2024 08:21

Mrsjayy · 01/03/2024 07:28

it wasn't she at all I read that very article last night there was no she I mean you
maybe read it as she an assumption. and on the TV news there was no she said. I they are no loss but let's not get carried away.

It was SHE originally. See screenshots below

Tiffany Scott has died in prison
Tiffany Scott has died in prison
pickledandpuzzled · 01/03/2024 08:32

And even in a male prison, Tiffany was a danger to women and children. Somehow Tiffany was stalking a little girl.

Tiffany was a danger to everyone. I remember thinking of Hannibal Lector when the arrangements for taking Tiffany to court were described. Biting people, swallowing pens…

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