Will Labour introduce Self ID & curb free speech?

[Heylo]

I’ve never voted Tory, but as a lesbian woman who plans to have children (and obviously as a woman!) I am and will be part of the three groups most affected by Gender Ideology; women, lesbian and soon I hope a Mother. I am really worried about what happens when Labour takes power. The Tories have been rubbish no arguments there but at least they are finally moving against the steam rolling of Gender Ideology. I’m thinking Labour are not that fiscally different to the Tories and have said they will not cap bankers bonuses and they don’t intend to increase public spending in a significant way.

Really concerned about more gender identity clinics popping up under Labour and Keir Starmer possibly curbing free speech via so - called hate laws (in the feminist circle i run in we all agree this is a euphemism for silencing women about men in female prisons, rape shelters and other areas where women are vulnerable).

wonder what everyone else thinking?

I think you'll get only a slightly watered down version of Self ID. Starmer keeps reiterating his intention to "modernise" the GRA to make it easier for people to get a GRC. He certainly will not be delivering any fundamental critiques of gender ideology, and I think he will continue to dither and fudge when it comes to the protection of single sex spaces. He won't challenge the advancement of gender ideology in schools, either. Many of his backbenchers are active TRAs.

He will spend a lot of time firefighting within his own party. The Left of the party already hates him and sees him as a sell out - and the ongoing issue of the war in the Middle East will continue to make life difficult for him - with many of his MPs wanting him to denounce Israel. Aligned to this will be a tightening of hate speech laws so that nobody can criticise Islamic fundamentalism without being called Islamophobic.

No, he'll leave it well alone. He wants to whole issue to disappear.

Yes. At high speed.

Stand by to make the Labour party's life a living hell for 5 years.

Yes, I believe they will. Starker is weak and won’t listen to any concerns because he thinks he’s being ‘kind’. I doubt he really understands the issues so will go along with self ID because he can’t vocalise any possible concerns. Added to that, there are some dangerously ‘kind’ women in the party who are obsessed with this. They’ll push and push, and Starmer will be forced to do something because the whole issue will be represented as ‘nasty Tories dislike self ID, therefore self ID must be good’.

The disgusting erasure of women and the complete and utter dismissal of our concerns will be why I’m going to have to vote Tory (previously voted Green).

That’s the only way the message will get through to Labour and the others. It has to be done for the longterm good.

One-word answer to your question: yes.

Self-ID in all but name and a do-it-yourself police state with surveillance outsourced to self-appointed and unaccountable guardians of virtue. Would love to be wrong, obviously.

Wrong thread!

Yes, unfortunately I think so. I also think the legal system will be harsher on women, and so many of our hard won rights will slowly be eroded. For the first time I can't vote, on principle I won't vote conservative, but I can not vote labour, I have a dd, despite being phlegmatic most of my life, I worry for our young women and girls, who have been utterly captured and don't seem to see the dangers.
I feel old!

Of course he's not going to be able to do that. He'll be challenged relentlessly from the opposition benches; plus bit by bit the whole trans project will start to derail even further ( more issues with sex offenders/murderers in women's facilities; deteriorating mental health amongst children leading to a necessary re-examination of trans identities/gender clinics for young people...and so on)

I think he does want the issue to disappear because he knows quite well it's his weak spot, making him vulnerable to attack both from the Tories and from the more intelligent members of his own party. Probably what he hopes (or what I would hope in his position) is that the Cass Review delivers some devastating conclusions and clear-cut recommendations that kill off the trans activist project off for good.

I think he'll do both too. He may want the issue to disappear, but he knows it won't. I don't know what's going to happen to the Labour Party; I can't see Starmer remaining Leader for long.

He'll probably try to kick the issue into the long grass.

@Heylo if you are looking to vote for a party you know will reverse this shit your choices are Reform UK or the SDP. The Tories can't be trusted with it. Especially as Sunak will be gone before the end of the year and Penny TWAW Mordaunt will probably be his successor.

They're in hock to the lobby up to their necks.

However the horror stories will continue to happen, and every one pisses the general public off more and more, and Labour are the kings of knee jerk popular gesture politics every time the PR gets bad. And women will not be sitting down and shutting up so every step they take into male supremacist la la land will come with women raising caine, and the Tories if in opposition will be free to go whoopee and do oppositioning loudly and vigorously with much sad faces about whatever horror has happened and the impact of truly stupid laws.

And this will happen in the context of the voters realising that other than a lot of waffle and stupid gestures, Labour can do fuck all different to the Tories because no money and all the same problems, and they are not socialist they just identify as, and getting very fed up with them. And the Cass report landing, and other countries increasingly going WTF have we done and reversing, and the court cases rolling in.

Basically this is going to be one of the issues that stalks them like the skeleton at the bloody feast. And whereas the Tories have dragged their feet enough that they could go credibly, 'well yes, we saw this coming and we were starting to think about turning the speeding tanker', and evidence this a bit, Labour will be well and truly stuck standing there with their pants down.

Surely Sue Gray has to be GC?

I hope so. And I’m a member of those three categories too.

I think they want to.

But court rulings between now and then matter still. Firstly to see if women still have rights to dignity and privacy and secondly because of the media cover of them.

Whats been interesting this week has been the sheer amount of FFS over the BBC (and others) coverage of the Blake case and much nodding in agreement with JKR.

That creates an issue for Labour. There will be pressure to appease TRA however rulings go BUT if there is sufficient public strength of feeling it also makes it difficult to go ahead with law changes that negatively impact women.

The law has to have enough public support otherwise the law fails apart.

The idea that women will roll over and just accept that they have to say that TWAW isn't one I think holds true. After everything I think if they try that one, you'll see some of active suffragette inspired response and deliberate law breaking in order to have a high profile show trial to prove a point.

I think there are people who have said on record already they are prepared to do this and I don't doubt their word.

Labour need to be mindful of just how far they are prepared to go, and how far under the radar they can push it. And will be allowed to.

There's a number of court cases going through, including the Supreme Court case on the Halden judgement. That and the Cass review (where the hell is it?) will keep the topic in the public eye.

I'm sure Labour wants to do self-ID, whether they manage it in the teeth of a public backlash is another question entirely. I will wait and see if it makes the manifesto. Posie's party will be pointing it out.

This is correct, I think - though personally I'm not sure if I can bring myself to vote Tory. I may just not vote, for the first time ever in a GE.

You can spoil your ballot: write ‘women are adult human females’ or whatever you like on it, and it will at least get read out when they do the count.

Unless that is counted as hate speech. They won’t read ‘hate speech’.

The wheels are coming off at the moment - the male lactation fetish, the John Lewis fetishists disaster, the Scarlet Blake murder with the press & courts openly lying as JKR's tweet pointed out. There's been a massive negative public reaction as all this has been exposed. So despite the relentless bullying of women and appalling behaviour of so many labour MPs, it will be difficult for them to keep ignoring this. There's the draft guidelines for schools focussed on safeguarding all children - again difficult for labour to argue against the child centred nature of them.

Not that any of this will stop the trans extremists wedged into labour but, I'm cautiously hopeful that what's happening will make it very difficult for their fingers in ears approach to continue?

Yes, they will. And while as noted above the wheels are coming off the genderwagon, the second issue - freedom of speech, authoritarianism etc, is possibly a larger problem. Look at how the media have dealt with Scarlet Blake over the past week. They can vanish news if they don't like it.

It's taken us years to get as far as we have - I expect we may lose a lot of ground with Labour in power.

And another thing I hadn't realised was the depth of woman-hatred on the left.

The Tories as a group may be many things; incompetent, unethical, self-serving - I just don't see them having this hatred of women.

It's a toxic issue for all the parties; I doubt any of them will be interested in doing much beyond tinkering round the edges. Starmer seems to be in a sweet spot where both trans activists and GC Ultras think he's in the pocket of "the other side" so that makes me think he must be doing a good job of holding a central line that all the extremists hate 😂

Personally if I was a lesbian wanting to have children I'd be far more worried about the Conservative government. There is already quite a lot of conversation happening around the additional financial burdens for lesbians using donor sperm from an anonymouse source, or with fertility issues and I can't see the Conservatives being interested in those conversations. Plus a lot of the Conservative cabinet have a very traditional view of motherhood and I'd worry they will want to reduce the number of families with same sex parents.

Here you go - ignore the alphabet soup, the article is clear this is about women

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiewareham/2022/03/27/same-sex-ivf-four-issues-uk-lgbtq-parents-faceits-discrimination/?sh=22881a90660a

I'm still optimistic that the extremes currently headlining will lead to a significant shift. Like so may women, I'd like to return to voting labour but just won't sell our children down the river until they return to understanding and supporting safeguarding and recognising competing rights.
I understand that a number of senior figures are very personally compromised with children caught up in this but again, Cass & the new DfE guidelines will ensure that they can't hide behind that for ever.

I really want to be right in being optimistic - but suspect that the grim reality will be that again they'll fail to deliver 😓