UK’s first trans and non-binary domestic violence refuge opens

[lechiffre55]

UK’s first trans and non-binary domestic violence refuge opens

https://twitter.com/Cavakaggy/status/1761028246559129613

https://www.thepinknews.com/2024/02/22/domestic-violence-refuge-trans-uk/

Congratulations to the UK's first trans and non binary domestic violence refuge. I hope you get all the support both political and financial possible. This TERF is incredibly supportive that the trans and non binary community has built a space of their own to support their own community. If it has a fundraiser I hope JKR donates with her usual generosity. I welcome this development and give my best wishes for long term success and hope you serve your community with pride and unanimous appreciation for all the hard work. This is important work and everyone contributing deserves praise and recognition.

No. I'm trying to open your mind to the possibilty that attacking a minority group is offensive, whether that's Muslim people or transgender people. It's the fact that you are NOT racist that makes the analogy works.

Did you mean that to sound as ridiculous as it did?

Transwomen can use the services for their exclusive use and they are perfectly welcome to use men's domestic refuges, but transwomen can stay out of women's refuges because they are men

Transwomen are included in the single sex provision for their sex. What with it being, y'know, single sex provision.

But you knew that.

Muslim women are not excluded from provision for women, because they are women.

But you knew that.

You are just proving the point that for some TRAs, nothing other than complete colonisation of women and everything for women is enough. That for those TRAs, you could provide all the trans-specific help anyone could want or need and it wouldn't matter one bit, because what they want is whatever women have got.

We already know that. But thanks for pointing it out anyway.

It’s like this @DadJoke

Muslim women - XX - female
Disabled women - XX - female
Black women - XX - female
Lesbian women - XX - female
Trans women - XY - male

Spot the difference yet? Males that way, females this way.

Middle aged straight white males aren't a minority group.

I'm suggesting that the existence of support services specifically for Muslim women should not mean that Muslim women should be included from single-sex spaces.

In exactly the same way, just because support services excusively for trans women exist, it does not mean trans women should be excluded from single-sex spaces.

This is drivel. There is no 'exactly the same way'. It's not equivalent.

Muslim women ARE women, they can have their own support services and be included in single sex spaces, because they are women.

Transwomen are NOT women, they can have their own support services and be excluded from women's single sex spaces, because they are men.

It's the fact that you are NOT racist that makes the analogy works.

Well, we are not but... how is it not racist of you to equate Muslim women with a subset of men?

No. I'm trying to open your mind to the possibilty that attacking a minority group is offensive, whether that's Muslim people or transgender people.

Nobody is attacking a minority group of any kind. Plenty are blocking men (not a minority group) from women's spaces though. Attacking and defending are not the same .

And I found your post highly offensive saying Muslim women shouldn't be allowed single sex spaces too. Religion and sex frequently have opposing needs/requirements, especially for women. Just look at highly religious countries for a start.

No. I'm trying to open your mind to the possibilty that attacking a minority group is offensive, whether that's Muslim people or transgender people. It's the fact that you are NOT racist that makes the analogy works.

No. What you are doing is demanding and insisting that women do what you say. Open up all spaces and services to males who declare a 'woman' identity, service these males, validate these males, change/alter our own language irrespective of the impact on women, women to have nothing, absolutely nothing that is solely for them and that is fucking offensive. It is however par for the course from a patriarchal misogynist like yourself.

Males are not a minority and they are not being attacked by the women here asserting their rights.

The only side doing any attacking is the one you promote and they just love to let fly with the violent threats and abuse as they did when Biera's Place opened, do you see anyone here doing the same about this organisation?

do you see anyone here doing the same about this organisation?

Precisely, the difference is stark. People are genuinely really pleased about this new service.

Fundamentally, as Dadjoke has aptly illustrated, women do not recognise the minority status of middle aged white men who identify as trans. Identifying as trans doesn’t get you into women’s space if you are not women, regardless of any other status you have.
So trans identifying men, like black men, disabled men and Muslim men, don’t get to use women’s spaces.

Tell me @DadJoke do you care about the life experiences of women of colour at any other time, or just when you want to invoke them as a comparator to transwomen?

I'm suggesting that the existence of support services specifically for Muslim women should not mean that Muslim women should be included from single-sex spaces.

Muslim women are automatically included in female single sex spaces, they are women.

In exactly the same way, just because support services excusively for trans women exist, it does not mean trans women should be excluded from single-sex spaces.

Transwomen are male, it is the defining criteria to be a transwoman, no female can be a transwomen, transwomen are not women. TW, by virtue of being of the male sex should and can absolutely be excluded from female single sex spaces, they are of course not excluded from the single sex spaces for their sex.

Thank you @GailBlancheViola can it be explained any more clearly? FFS

Single sex spaces are not single sex spaces if you let both women and men in.

"transwomen" are men.

@Peskysquirrel we are dealing with someone who believes women and girls should share spaces with the Isla Bryson's, Katie Dolotowski's and Karen White's of this world - happily change next to them, share hospital wards, refuges and prisons with them. That is how little he thinks of women.

Because the pesky disadvantages of being attacked, raped, feeling unsafe and having a loss of dignity and autonomy that comes with being an actual women aren't something that the male transitioners' want to have to deal with. They want what men who have sought to control women over the centuries want - complete dominance in every sphere of life, only this time the men are doing it with long hair and lipstick. DadJoke demonstrates his maleness with every single post he types.

The ironic part of the Muslim example being that if you allow women identifying males into female refuges that you are de facto excluding Muslim females from those refuges because their religion prevents them from doing many things in a male presence. There are already examples of Muslim women who previously could only use designated women only swimming sessions self excluding because male women have invaded. There is nothing left for them beyond hiring the whole pool to theselves which just isn't practical.

I am sure no one here would argue that because there are specialist support services for Muslim woman, Muslim women should be excluded from women's spaces in general.

YOU ARE INDIRECTLY MAKING THAT ARGUMENT!!!!! By arguing male women should not be excluded from women's spaces any more than Muslim women you are arguing for a course of action that would result in the exclusion of Muslim women.

The irony is off the carts. That you would choose to use Muslim women for your example just demonstrates you havn't thought the whole thing through.

YOU ARE INDIRECTLY MAKING THAT ARGUMENT!!!!! By arguing male women should not be excluded from women's spaces any more than Muslim women you are arguing for a course of action that would result in the exclusion Muslim women.

Yeah but it's okay if they self exclude according to DadJoke 'cos they are transphobic 'cos they won't set aside their religion to dance attendance on, submit to and validate TW.

So in your opinion it's better to go ahead with the current system that provides inadequate care to trans and non binary people (who do exist despite your opinion on non binary not being real), that often results in trans and non binary people feeling they are unable to access dv support services altogether?

At least by your post trans or non binary men will have the choice to use whatever service they feel most comfortable using. More choice for people experiencing domestic violence is never a bad thing and if a trans man feels safer in a women's refuge then they still meet the remit.

And having worked with dv survivors for years, I'd say any genuine survivor will be glad of any decent support offered to them. Especially support that affirms their gender identity and is fully informed of the nuances that go along with that.

I think this is a really positive step, the next one is this spreading across the UK so that its more accessible for people to access help local to them.

@Lavender14

You say the current system provides inadequate care to trans and non binary..... does this mean you feel the current system provided adequate care to natal women? Because when I needed to go to refuge I couldn't access it and I know of one woman in my freedom program who lost her child (for many reasons) but the one that brought the worst criticism of her was that she slept in her car for a few days with her child when she also couldn't get into a shelter and was deemed not ok to keep her child

I don't see this as something to celebrate, I think it's problematic.

Setting up a whole service for "trans and non-binary people" validates gender identities as real, rather than a religious/spiritual concept that one can opt to believe in, or an unhelpful umbrella term to describe young people with mental health issues and men with paraphilias. It's another way of obscuring the real issues with transgenderism. It also helps create the idea of a third group of people that desperately need special services, when actually there are only two groups - men and women (as there are only two sexes and humans can't change sex) - and that is reflected in the groups of majority perpetrators and victims of domestic violence. I worry that validation through exclusive services for the TQ will further indoctrinate society and especially young people into a religious idea that actively harms people.

I can see how it now seems easier to say women's refuges should be single sex because there are trans-specific services, so everyone is catered for. But personally I don't think keeping women-only spaces needs any justification. The availability of services for men, or the demands of patriarchal religions, whether old or new, doesn't affect whether we women deserve our safety and dignity.

pragmatism

Great news.