The Ladies pond again

[IcakethereforeIam]

Trying to have a vote to make it women only again

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/02/22/transgender-women-ban-kenwood-ladies-pond-hampstead-heath/

https://archive.ph/xbIsK paywall dodge

I'm not holding my breath.

This is a very odd thing to say.
As a feminist, I would prefer gender-neutral pronouns in some situations (e.g. instead of the generic "he" used to refer to a human, as in "mankind", however, sometimes markers of sex are important (for example, you cannot possibly experience motherhood unless you are a woman).

I don't think I've ever met a woman who feels remotely comfortable with notions of "femininity", but most accept sex-based pronouns as far as they refer to biological sex. Certainly not as referring to gender!

Trans people who want to use the opposite pronoun to their biological sex do so because they believe they are of the opposite sex. So far, no evidence verifying these beliefs has been discovered despite scientists' efforts, so these remain beliefs.

People who wish to use different pronouns due to a belief in gender performativity are welcome to do so, but shouldn't be enforcing this on others or pretending, as you are here, that we align ourselves with their gender stereotyping or categorising simply because we accept sex-based pronouns as a linguistic default.

Experiencing sexual violence does not mean I think everyone with a penis should be viewed as a potential threat. Why would it?

Well “gender identity” absolutely belongs in the same category as reiki and homeopathy.

It’s an invented concept created to explain the phenomenon that there are a tiny number of individuals who were damaged in early childhood to the extent that they became confused about which sex they are.

Despite the fact that it’s much more likely that thinking you are the wrong sex is a mental health disorder (presumably delusional on some level) the concept of a separate “gender identity” was invented to explain this phenomenon.

From there, despite the fact that there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone has a “gender identity” an extrapolation was made that everyone must have one, and that if you don’t feel yours it’s because it’s so normalized that you don’t even notice it exists.

The concept of “gender identity” is so similar to that of a “soul” that it is almost approaching a pseudo-religious ideal, rather than pseudoscientific, but adherents insist that “gender identity” is based in science. It isn’t and when challenged to provide the necessary proofs, there are none to be found.

maybe its because Im a Londoner...

As for 'countless times.' I don't much feel like counting. Does that make me less credible? Should I make a spreadsheet?

That is not at all what was meant, as I suspect you know very well.

What I meant is that if living a life of perfect freedom results in being raped and assaulted 'countless times' then it doesn't look like a very good trade. I've had a great many assaults myself, starting at the age of six, and don't wish to add any more to my experience.

As for those less resilient than you, might I suggest extending them a little sympathy. That way, your attempts at persuasion might be more likely to be listened to.

Have you written anything you think should be removed?

No, but you do

You don't have to think that but you lack empathy with women who do fear male violence to quite an astonishing degree. Hence my comment.

Think about what the word "potential" means. It's not a synonym for probable or likely.

Like?

Give us some for instances.

But we're talking here about a special space where women connect with their physical embodiment in nature, engage with their physical experience and are often wearing little clothing. Surely it's quite natural that some, perhaps many, even, will need to be certain they're in a female-only environment in order to feel comfortable and relaxed doing this?

I understand you don't mind being naked or topless or in a swimming costume in front of the opposite sex, but many women do, for various reasons.

I don't think it's based on science. What other aspects of people's identities do you demand biological proof for?

being a woman or man, disability status, qualifiying for medical treatments

race to a certain extend

some measures of inteligence

age

pregnancy status

those hight measures on funfair rides

The limits of expressing personal identity choices are other people's equality and choices and freedoms.

There is a mixed sex pond, there is no need for anyone with a TQ+ identity to have to use a pool of a sex they have chosen to consciously reject.

For men to remove a single sex space from women, invade their space and provision with all its impact on those women, and exclude the women not lucky enough to be able to tolerate a mixed sex space, because they want to express their inner self is an act of profound selfishness. It's absolutely inexcusable.

gastric band surgery

I definitely could have avoided some of my experiences of sexual violence if I'd been prepared to curtail my freedoms. It wasn't a trade I was prepared to make. To have done so would have limited my experience of life, and would have meant that they had won and were continuing to control me.

I do not fear men in the same way as many other women might, but I still don't want to be seen naked by men I don't know and I also don't want to be flashed by male genitalia when I am using what I believe to be a single sex changing room.

Trans activists like PP82 don't seem to want to understand that there are very little women who want to be flashed or oggled by strange men.

As there is no way to determine if a penis-haver is cis or not, all women should just assume they are cis (as cis stills outnumbers trans) and get management to remove them. Last time I encountered a dude in the toilets, I told him to leave. He did just that (mumbling wrong toilet).

@Ohnohedident race and disability status are not biological categories. People define themselves by regional, cultural, national, linguistic, religious, spiritual, philosophical allegiances etc. We respect these, guard them fiercely. They aren't based on science.

Men not being allowed into women's spaces doesn't curtail our freedoms at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

It does of course curtail something they want at our expense. Allowing them to take what they want, at our expense, is a win for them and is them controlling us.

inate skin color is biologically determined and almost all disabilites are also biologically determined.