Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Spain-woman sentenced to 6 months in prison after making 'transphobic' remarks towards male ex prostitute

366 replies

happydappy2 · 21/02/2024 16:48

https://x.com/ReduxxMag/status/1760315313822769281?s=20

She was also fined Eu3850 and disqualified from holding employment in any profession in the fields of teaching or sports for 3 & 1/2 years

https://x.com/ReduxxMag/status/1760315313822769281?s=20

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
HeartofSaturdayNight · 22/02/2024 17:46

PP82 · 22/02/2024 16:19

I've faced some bigotry and injustice, but not an overwhelming amount. I'm angry at the rise of the populist and far right, of which I consider the 'gender critical ' to be a part, and on behalf of people who have it much worse than me. It's not personal. I have a lovely life and am generally very happy. But I've always fought bigotry and prejudice and I'm not going to stop now. You are the ones who are always aggrieved and feel perpetually persecuted.

Well, at least you’ve been honest in your response and I appreciate that however, come on now, this:

"You are always the ones..."

Has it occurred to you that people are not a monolith hive mind? That there are in fact people with a wide variety of opinions in both the so-called Left and so-called Right? Personally, I don't find either label that helpful these days but then I left my political party- which was Alliance in Northern Ireland BTW - sorry to burst your "everyone here's a literal Nazi" bubble - I left because I believe in women's rights and child safeguarding (which as we all know, were major priorities of the Third Reich)

"Everyone GC" = Far Right. So anyone who knows biology is a reality and, in some situations, sex matters is "Far Right"? Can you really not see how daft that assertion is?

GC isnt a set of prescribed beliefs. If you stick around these boards, you might learn that quite quickly. Just look at the ho-hah around pronouns (dont engage though, that's 'Poking the Bear' on the forum Richter scale.)

GC = knowing sex is real and binary. It's a bit like saying acknowledging gravity is a belief. Which is to say its a nonsense phrase to encapsulate objective reality - which in law is actually quite important.

Let me know how not believing in biology reality goes if someone you love needs the services of a rape crisis centre and can't find a space away from men because there's no longer funding for single sex spaces. If you are privileged enough to not know what it's like to have an actual physical trauma response to male bodied people, consider yourself lucky. I'm 40 years on and I still have an involuntary response if I am left alone with a man unexpectedly. It's a shame your empathy doesn't appear to stretch to traumatised female survivors of sexual violence too.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to never know what it's like to watch a much loved, possibly gay, child told they are born in the wrong body for simply liking activities not atypical for their sex by a school, high on their own righteous agenda and incapable of sitting with gender non conformity. I've seen the damage done to families by those who are arrogant enough to think they know a child better than the child's parents. It's a shame your empathy doesn't stretch to the distraught families or the thousands of detransitioners encouraged down an experimental irreversible medical pathway who then have to come to terms with missing body parts, ppermanent physical changes, lifelong medical complications, potential sterility and the loss of all the "friends", who often love bombed them into their announcement in the first place.

Let's hope your lovely life will mean you are never locked up in a cell with a male rapist or forced to lie about the sex of the man who raped you in a UK courtroom. I hope my life means I never experience this but I have huge amounts of empathy for the women being institutionally gaslit and abused. Where's your empathy for the less fortunate here? Or does it only stretch to causes that directly affect you?

Maybe you're financially stable enough that you and your loved ones will be able to choose the sex of any primary care giver or HCP giving you intimate care because it seems those with luxury beliefs don't think sex matters in this case - even though the crime statistics would show you otherwise. Of course those with private health care and money won't be sharing a ward with a wanking man. Lucky them

You get outraged on "behalf of other people" because checks notes: "Far Right" - but you don't have the decency to listen to what others, who disagree with your stance, are actually saying. Far easier to accuse them of generalised bigotry rather than actually engage with the complex suite of issues bought about by those who are, frankly quite privileged. But then addressing complex issues requires effort and doesnt give the quick ego boost that sanctimonious name calling offers amiright?

Those who think differently to you happen to have many valid reasons for disagreeing. It's really very immature to just throw lazy group slurs at others.

In other news, Rob Henderson's book on Luxury Beliefs should be out soon. I'm also going to add that to my uninvited recommendations for your bookshelf.

Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.

Peskysquirrel · 22/02/2024 17:47

PP82 · 22/02/2024 17:45

You can define yourself as left wing or liberal, but as a political actor you are now a part of the populist right.

Keep on digging.
Your arguments are full of holes and contradictions.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 17:50

Just my opinion.

Yes, and as such, as easily dismissed as anyone else's.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 17:51

Everyone has a gender identity. You are just privileged if you never had to think about it.

No, I'm just a woman. It's an entirely meaningless concept outside of my female lived experience.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 17:53

just that most people don't have an easily defined sexuality

Yes, a lot of people do. As I said, echo chamber nonsense.

PP82 · 22/02/2024 17:54

ICanSeeMyHouseFromHere · 22/02/2024 17:46

We all have a relationship to gender, because it is a fundamental concept in our society, whether you like it or not. (I don't like it, btw)

Yes, gender is an external force exerted on people because of their sex - no need for any internal gender identity at all.

And personally, I don't think that you're either of a religion, or atheist - there are people (eg. me) who doesn't know and doesn't care if there's a god. I not only don't believe, I don't disbelieve - so I wouldn't describe myself as an atheist.

I don't define myself based on other people's religions, or how they think men/women should act. I feel no need to use their labels or involve myself in those concepts at all.

If you are happy to be called a woman and referred to with she/her pronouns, you have a gender identity whether you like it or not.

And how do you account for those with gender dysphoria?

Also, if you're so opposed to gender why are you all so opposed to gender neutral language? It's just a contruct that we use gendered pronouns.

AndSoFinally · 22/02/2024 17:54

"The court ruled that the “transphobic messages” had resulted in Ferrer Micó being “exposed” to his friend and work circle as a trans-identified male, suggesting that it had not been obvious or known before."

I think it probably was....

Chersfrozenface · 22/02/2024 17:57

I don't have a gender identity.

I have a biological sex and a personality.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 17:59

Maybe a few people have straightforward sexualities but that's unusual

It really is not Grin you're hilarious. Bisexuality may be common, but it's not more common than monosexuality. And no, most people are not "pansexual". Studies have shown that most people aren't attracted to "trans people" of either sex. It's a shame for them if their dating pool is shallower but that's reality, many people don't share someone's self image.

PP82 · 22/02/2024 18:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:01

Most people live in it with me.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:01

Chersfrozenface · 22/02/2024 17:57

I don't have a gender identity.

I have a biological sex and a personality.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:03

Knowing what sex you are as a girl and then a woman is in no way the same thing as, let's say, David deciding he's a woman because he's aroused by wearing a pair of tights.

LentilFaculties · 22/02/2024 18:03

Thinking "everyone has a gender identity" is a supremely privileged position!

Any identity at all I thought I had was ripped away from me after the birth of my first child. Not just from the sheer physicality of it, but also maternity discrimination at work. Did the world care how I felt about it all? Did it fuck.

And I certainly don't have "gender identity" any more than I believe in the existence of god. To assume that I identify with the list of regressive stereotypes we're told make us, and some men, women??!! Well that's offensive as well as ignorant. Shiiit maybe I'm revising my thoughts on people going to prison for saying bad words....

PP82 · 22/02/2024 18:13

HeartofSaturdayNight · 22/02/2024 17:46

Well, at least you’ve been honest in your response and I appreciate that however, come on now, this:

"You are always the ones..."

Has it occurred to you that people are not a monolith hive mind? That there are in fact people with a wide variety of opinions in both the so-called Left and so-called Right? Personally, I don't find either label that helpful these days but then I left my political party- which was Alliance in Northern Ireland BTW - sorry to burst your "everyone here's a literal Nazi" bubble - I left because I believe in women's rights and child safeguarding (which as we all know, were major priorities of the Third Reich)

"Everyone GC" = Far Right. So anyone who knows biology is a reality and, in some situations, sex matters is "Far Right"? Can you really not see how daft that assertion is?

GC isnt a set of prescribed beliefs. If you stick around these boards, you might learn that quite quickly. Just look at the ho-hah around pronouns (dont engage though, that's 'Poking the Bear' on the forum Richter scale.)

GC = knowing sex is real and binary. It's a bit like saying acknowledging gravity is a belief. Which is to say its a nonsense phrase to encapsulate objective reality - which in law is actually quite important.

Let me know how not believing in biology reality goes if someone you love needs the services of a rape crisis centre and can't find a space away from men because there's no longer funding for single sex spaces. If you are privileged enough to not know what it's like to have an actual physical trauma response to male bodied people, consider yourself lucky. I'm 40 years on and I still have an involuntary response if I am left alone with a man unexpectedly. It's a shame your empathy doesn't appear to stretch to traumatised female survivors of sexual violence too.

Maybe you'll be lucky enough to never know what it's like to watch a much loved, possibly gay, child told they are born in the wrong body for simply liking activities not atypical for their sex by a school, high on their own righteous agenda and incapable of sitting with gender non conformity. I've seen the damage done to families by those who are arrogant enough to think they know a child better than the child's parents. It's a shame your empathy doesn't stretch to the distraught families or the thousands of detransitioners encouraged down an experimental irreversible medical pathway who then have to come to terms with missing body parts, ppermanent physical changes, lifelong medical complications, potential sterility and the loss of all the "friends", who often love bombed them into their announcement in the first place.

Let's hope your lovely life will mean you are never locked up in a cell with a male rapist or forced to lie about the sex of the man who raped you in a UK courtroom. I hope my life means I never experience this but I have huge amounts of empathy for the women being institutionally gaslit and abused. Where's your empathy for the less fortunate here? Or does it only stretch to causes that directly affect you?

Maybe you're financially stable enough that you and your loved ones will be able to choose the sex of any primary care giver or HCP giving you intimate care because it seems those with luxury beliefs don't think sex matters in this case - even though the crime statistics would show you otherwise. Of course those with private health care and money won't be sharing a ward with a wanking man. Lucky them

You get outraged on "behalf of other people" because checks notes: "Far Right" - but you don't have the decency to listen to what others, who disagree with your stance, are actually saying. Far easier to accuse them of generalised bigotry rather than actually engage with the complex suite of issues bought about by those who are, frankly quite privileged. But then addressing complex issues requires effort and doesnt give the quick ego boost that sanctimonious name calling offers amiright?

Those who think differently to you happen to have many valid reasons for disagreeing. It's really very immature to just throw lazy group slurs at others.

In other news, Rob Henderson's book on Luxury Beliefs should be out soon. I'm also going to add that to my uninvited recommendations for your bookshelf.

Thanks for coming to my Tedtalk.

There's a lot to respond to there.

I have experienced a lot of sexual violence. I don't have the same trauma response as you. I'm fine in the presence of men who are unknown to me. I do have a trauma response to banging on a door. I don't expect no one to ever bang on a door. Trauma responses need medical intervention, not society to be organised around them.

If my child was trans I would support them 100% in their medical transition, if that's what they chose.

If any of my rapists asked me to refer to them as a woman, I wouldn't give a shit. Fuckers raped me. Their gender is irrelevant. I have also been sexually exploited by women. It was no better. I was raped by men because I was vulnerable. In almost all cases I could probably have fought them off had I mentally been able to summon the resources. Last time I was a victim of sexual violence (kidnap and attempted rape) I'd had enough and I did fight and I did get away. Physical strength is only part of the picture. Having a penis is only part of the picture. Sexual violence is a product of social relationships, not biology.

Totallymessed · 22/02/2024 18:14

PP82 · 22/02/2024 17:32

Do you go around telling your Muslim friends that they aren't really Muslim because Islam is just made up? Do you think they should have no protection from discrimination under the law?

Everyone has a gender identity. You are just privileged if you never had to think about it. Just like those of us with no faith have to define ourselves as atheists, in relation to faith, because faith is such a fundamental concept in almost all human societies.

Edited

I think the opposite, that you are extraordinarily privileged if you live in a place where you can choose a "gender identity". Do women in Afghanistan get to say that they are actually male and suddenly become able to go to school or leave the house unaccompanied by a man? Does a girl in Somalia get to identify out of being subjected to FGM?

PP82 · 22/02/2024 18:17

LentilFaculties · 22/02/2024 18:03

Thinking "everyone has a gender identity" is a supremely privileged position!

Any identity at all I thought I had was ripped away from me after the birth of my first child. Not just from the sheer physicality of it, but also maternity discrimination at work. Did the world care how I felt about it all? Did it fuck.

And I certainly don't have "gender identity" any more than I believe in the existence of god. To assume that I identify with the list of regressive stereotypes we're told make us, and some men, women??!! Well that's offensive as well as ignorant. Shiiit maybe I'm revising my thoughts on people going to prison for saying bad words....

I've just lost my job due to needing time off for IVF. I'm going to court for compensation. If I win I will be compensated (tens of thousands) for moral and psychological damage. The system in Spain does compensate you for how you feel.

Totallymessed · 22/02/2024 18:18

@PP82 I find your remarks minimizing a woman having to refer to her rapist in court as "he" disgusting tbh. As someone who thinks they are very empathetic, your complete lack of empathy for rape victims tells its own story I'm afraid.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:19

If any of my rapists asked me to refer to them as a woman, I wouldn't give a shit.

That isn't the case for other women. At least have the humility to recognise that. Gaslighting can feel awful and coercive.

PP82 · 22/02/2024 18:19

Totallymessed · 22/02/2024 18:14

I think the opposite, that you are extraordinarily privileged if you live in a place where you can choose a "gender identity". Do women in Afghanistan get to say that they are actually male and suddenly become able to go to school or leave the house unaccompanied by a man? Does a girl in Somalia get to identify out of being subjected to FGM?

No. But those women should have the right to an education, full autonomy, not to be mutilated and to choose their gender identity. It's not an either/or situation.

TheMarzipanDildo · 22/02/2024 18:23

PP82 · 22/02/2024 18:19

No. But those women should have the right to an education, full autonomy, not to be mutilated and to choose their gender identity. It's not an either/or situation.

Well obviously. But the point being made there is that women are oppressed on the basis of their sex, not their gender identity.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:23

I've just lost my job due to needing time off for IVF.

You've lost your job for being a woman and wanting to do a thing that women do. That's terrible. And in Spain which I thought was much more progressive than the U.K.

PP82 · 22/02/2024 18:24

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:19

If any of my rapists asked me to refer to them as a woman, I wouldn't give a shit.

That isn't the case for other women. At least have the humility to recognise that. Gaslighting can feel awful and coercive.

Using preferred pronouns isn't gaslighting. Compelled speech is such a bullshit concept too. Every time you are expected to be polite to someone you don't like at work, do you refuse, call them an arsehole and then cry 'compelled speech!' if reprimanded?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:25

Using preferred pronouns isn't gaslighting.

Your personal, genderist opinion is not the arbiter of what is and isn't.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/02/2024 18:26

We're not talking about "someone at work". We're talking about having to call a man who forced his penis on me "she" and a "woman". It might not matter to you, it does to others.