Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

It's a pyschological and safeguarding nightmare isn't it? Not just for the child involved but for all the other children expected to be complicit in this lie.

Re what action you can take - what's the school like? Is it Stonewall captured with groups, flags and lies about changing the sex all over the place? In which case I'd use the new draft guidelines to raise general issues about safeguarding and the school complying with them?

Personally I'd try to avoid doing anything that would out the child but focus on the actions of the schools. There's no doubt that a group of vulnerable children who've been socially groomed into believing they can change sex will be for an uncomfortable time in the next few years as those schools caught up in trans extremism are forced to re engage with safeguarding children and to stop gaslighting them with age inappropriate fantasies about changing sex.

A tricky judgement call.

Transgender Trend have this from a clinical psychologist about how telling teenagers they're the opposite sex is so harmful:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/

My bet would be that some, or even many children do realise, but say nothing or just don't mention it you. Like the separate changing... they will have noticed.

I know a child in my DDs year identifies as non binary or opposite sex, but it has never been implicitly mentioned. I've known them a few years, pre transition.

I think it'll become pretty obvious in the next year or two.

You beat me to it.
Male puberty doesn't lie

Thanks for the responses!

Good point that it will become more obvious in the not too distant future. The child is quite overweight, which hides obvious physical gender characters well at the moment. No idea whether he is on any hormone treatment or anything either.

And thanks for sharing the link to that article, was very interesting to read.

Re stonewall, the school isn't one of those with posters all over the place nearly encouraging children to question their gender identify.
It also has a large percentage of students from a practicing religious background, which would clash with these ideas.

Don't envy schools for having to balance all these things! Seems an impossible task.

And DD and her friends don't seem to suspect anything than the child being a girl. There's a set fake reason for the need for the separate toilet and changing room too. Others may suspect something quite possibly, or know but have accepted it without questioning, who knows.

But isn't that the point?

It is likely it will become obvious and how will all the children who've been told this child is female feel about that?

What happens when they start to suspect? Does the lie continue? What do teachers and parents say in response to a direct question?

All the adults (from parents to teachers) who knew were complicit in taking away children's self agency in making decisions about their interactions with this child.

Then people wonder why such children view the world with suspicion and mistrust.

It's simply not appropriate to expect that one child's identity should be dependent on the creation of a secret faux reality at the expense of others.

It helps nobody - even the child in question. The burden of carrying their secret must be enormous as must be the implicit fear of being outed.

Whilst I don't buy into the concept of a trans child I appreciate there are going to be such situations that have to be navigated.

Far better to be open and honest and teach children to treat each other with kindness and respect rather than burden one with a secret presumably "shameful" enough it needs to be hidden whilst simultaneously wilfully coercing other children into creating a false reality through deception.

Argh - meant to type gender characteristics rather than gender characters

@BreadInCaptivity really good post and I agree with it all, except situations that have to be navigated. I think parents need to start to push back with the clear understanding that children can behave the way they want, wear what they want, have the name their family use, but be clear on their sex. This will only happen when parents stand up for it. And goodness knows how.... but mothers in particular have made a lot of headway on these issues, we just the energy to keep pushing. Children deserve adults who tell them the truth.

@BreadInCaptivity

You described my dilemma with regard to DD really well here:

"All the adults (from parents to teachers) who knew were complicit in taking away children's self agency in making decisions about their interactions with this child."

I feel like I am lying to her by not telling her, but don't want the burden of carrying this secret on her shoulders either of course

I think we are on the same page here.

By navigate I meant addressing the school and pushing back.

The context was given I don't believe such young children are ever trans it's bonkers that these situations are arising in the first place.

This is very difficult, in your shoes I would approach the head and say you are aware there is a male child who identifies as a girl and you want to know when/how/if they plan to explain this to the children as you do not feel comfortable withholding the info from your own child long term. (Assuming that is how you feel)

As a parent I would only use my knowledge if I thought my child required that information. So I would be happy to keep my mouth shut until such a time as I decided my child might need to know it from a safeguarding perspective.

I appreciate why you feel that way but in your situation I would absolutely tell my child.

I would refuse to breach my child's trust in me to maintain a deception.

I would also push back on the school with a vengeance.

The whole logic is so twisted and people want it both ways.

How can you shout about treating trans people with dignity and respect whilst simultaneously making it so shameful it has to be secret?

@WoollyMammoth1 "When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do."

What would you like to do, or have the school do?

The other kids will know, they won't come out and say it, but they will know.

They either accept it, or if they don't they know to keep their mouths shut.

@BreadInCaptivity DD is quite young for her age, and would likely act awkwardly around the child or unintentionally cause the 'secret' to
come out, which isn't something I want to put on her shoulders. Speaking to the school asking for their plans to handle the situation, also considering it's virtually impossible to remain a secret in the next few years may be the best way forward.

@unwashedanddazed
I wanted to know whether the school was in breach of any safeguarding regulations by agreeing to keep the child's true gender identity hidden, which I found they were not, However much I disagree. Day to day issues like changing seem to be arranged as well as can be expected.
I hoped that openness could be encouraged for the safeguarding of others, but seems like it's all focused on the wants and wellbeing of the trans child. Or even a more general communication, to parent, not mentioning the child of course, just with details of their policies regarding this.
I read through the policies on the school website, and non specifically address trans children at the school, some more general policies do touch on the topic but that's all.

Just tell your child.

I had a similar situation in year 7. As soon as I knew I said to my child ‘did you know x in your class identifies as trans?’. My child said ‘oh, some people have said that but I don’t know if it true’. I said ‘it is true, they are female but identify as a boy’. My child said ok. We carried on with our day.

4 years later they are still friends, and the child still identifies as a boy. We occasionally talk about this child, occasionally talk about which changing rooms they are using, occasionally talk about navigating sleepovers involving them, occasionally talk about trans groups, occasionally talk about women’s rights. My children are very clear on my position on the subject. They are also very clear on my position on how we treat individual people with kindness and respect. It’s not the poor child’s fault they have been led down this path.

You have no obligation whatsoever to prop up the lie.

👏👏👏

This. Don’t play along with the charade.

@BreadInCaptivity we are on the same page 🙂

You know, so you should let your daughter know. This isn't your secret to keep. You have no connection or loyalty to the boy you have a duty to your daughter though to ensure she is armed with the full facts.

And whilst it might not feel great to tell her you aren't the mother with a son pretending to be a daughter and an open Facebook account. Sooner or later someone will tell your daughter, it might as well be you.

And the adults around them are teaching them not to accept their instincts (their knowing) and certainly not to express them. It is the safeguarding nightmare. How are we managing to fail this generation of kids so spectacularly and so recently after the revelations of abuse scandals in recent years. Astounding to me!

Honestly, I think you’re reading too much into this and have spent way too much time and energy on it.

You don’t know the full story.
You say you’ve been on the parents SM but that doesn’t really give you much info.

You could be looking at a completely different child or perhaps the parents tried raising them as a boy but their true sex is a girl or they’re ‘intersex’ and the parents had to choose one gender but as they’ve gotten older it has become more obvious that they identify as the other one.

It is not very often when a teen keeps these sorts of things secret (often it’s done for attention purposes) and the fact that it’s been kept such a big secret (not even telling their best friend), suggests that there are bigger reasons here.

There are no safe guarding issues if they’re using the disabled toilet etc and so there’s nothing to worry about.

Keep quiet and stop spending your time trying to find out what genitalia a child has, as no matter how much digging you do you will never truly find out.

As they get older it will likely become more obvious and then it’s up to the child/school to discuss it or make changes.

Going against the grain here but I agree with not telling your daughter. If she outs them it could make things difficult for her at school. Plus there is a small chance you’re wrong, if you’re going off of social media pictures.

As others have said, it’ll all become obvious soon enough, I’m surprised people don’t already know if there are public images on social media.

Approaching the school would be a waste of time, they won’t discuss another pupil with you.

I’d just keen an eye out on any future friendships etc with this child if your DD has had issues with them already.