Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

But your sex isn’t private information, schools sometimes have to segregate children by sex.

Yes. I said that. But this child isn’t using shared facilities and I also said I have concerns around PE.

i just don’t think it’s as simple as check everyone has a right to know. I can be concerned about the child in question and the other children.

I am not saying I know what the answer is. But I don’t think it’s straight forward.

It is private information for this child. If the OP genuinely believes it is right to tell everyone what she has discovered through looking at the family's facebook page, she should do so openly and see how that feels. It is clear that she will cause distress to a vulnerable young person. For what? To make a point? She has already said that the school has provided separate facilities. It is desperately sad for this child and they have a tricky road ahead of them. It really isn't anyone's business unless there is a realistic chance of harm to others.

And the school know the child’s sex.

Op can approach the school and ask about what safeguards are in place for the female pupils regarding sports.

Looking at it from a slightly different perspective, I have a son around this age. If he dated a "girl", only to later find out they were actually a boy, that would have a terrible impact on him. I know as an adult I wouldn't want to be in that position.

Sure some people will tell us sex is irrelevant, but I think for 99per cent of people that is just not the case.

The OP has no idea that this child is a boy though.

They only think it’s a boy because of going through the mums SM and seeing a photo of a boy when he was younger.

It doesn’t mean this is the same child, especially when they have 2 completely different names.
The boy in the photo could be a sibling.

It's not weird. It happened because I quickly read your post and replied to the bit I quoted. I've just read it again and I can see you also mentioned other vulnerable groups which I'd missed on my first quick reading. I should have read your post more carefully before replying.

I agree about the child abuse. The parents could be encouraging this opposite sex identity in their child, although sometimes it's the school transing the child behind the parents' back.

I don't blame the child either. He's being failed by all the adults in his life who are encouraging this.

I'm sure the parents know, and the school should know as well.

It's not just the changing facilities at school. What about sleepovers etc? I would not want a teenage boy, whatever he was wearing, at a sleepover with my teenage girl. If I later found out that I had inadvertently placed my child at risk because I didn't have all the information I should have had, I'd be furious.

It's possible that the school has transed the child without the parents knowing.

It is desperately sad that some or all of the adults who should be protecting this child from harm are instead encouraging him down a path which will lead to being a medical patient for life and leave him sterile and with impaired sexual function. No adults should be encouraging this in any child.

Encouraging a child to believe that they can change sex, when the reality is that they will have their health ruined in an attempt to resemble the opposite sex is child abuse.

If you're really concerned about a vulnerable young person being distressed, you should be concerned about what these adults are doing to him.

Reminds me of when girls boarding schools used to hide pregnancies...

Of course the parents and the school know. It’s still private. If something is only private if no one knows then nothing is private. Medical records for example? Plenty of people see our medical records. They are still private.

Again, when does that mean everyone else has a right to know. The issue is safeguarding the female pupils. Which I think Op should be following up with the school.

I know loads about my kids that their teachers would know, that doesn’t mean everyone else has the right to know the details. Where does that stop? That pupils are privy to all and any information about other pupils, if their parents and teachers know? Is that really the route we want to go down? Where does that stop? Do all colleagues have the right to know anything their managers know about other members of staff?

As you agree this child isn’t the one to blame and isn’t at fault and very vulnerable, I am sure you agree Op telling her daughter, which she is sure her daughter won’t be able to keep to herself, isn’t the way to deal with this. For the other child or Ops daughter.

But there’s also potential issues with this ‘secret’ I agree and I don’t think this situation is in the child’s best interests, but that’s doesn’t mean Op making everyone aware is the right decision either.

Also i think it is weird, to read someone’s post disagree with a point they already made, then cut and paste happening to mis the relevant bit. Especially when it’s suggesting something that wasn’t said. I never implied or said only trans children were vulnerable. Whether due to misreading or other reasons. You don’t think it is and that’s ok too.

@Trulyme
You don't know what was visible on the social media profile. I did not make an assumption based on a wild guess, it was very obvious. The fact that the parent did not set stricter privacy settings on their profile is very strange considering, but that's their doing.

@OldCrone the parents are aware
Can't say too much as don't want to out myself, but I can say that with 100% certainty

@Lupiform - exactly that - it goes far beyond changing facilities etc. DD and the child are no longer friends, which to be honest is a relief. But they do have other friends of course and their parents might feel similar, if they know the truth. (Good point earlier, I might not be alone in knowing this)

I honestly can't stand reading some of the comments on this thread!

I am the parent of a trans child (female who identifies as male) who is almost 14. The staff in his school know, as do his closest friends, but other than that it is NOBODY ELSES GOD DAMN BUSINESS UNLESS HE CHOOSES IT TO BE!

It isn't a crime to keep it to yourself. The only reason he does is because he has seen how other (more open) trans kids have been treated in school and he's terrified, so I don't blame him one bit. He too uses the disabled loo to change. He understands full well that when he starts forming romantic relationships he MUST be honest, but until then he is perfectly OK to carry on as he is. As I said, his closest friend's now, as they're the only people who need to know.

Stop creating situations that haven't happened, problems that don't exist, and just be thankful that you don't have to go through the roller coaster that is parenting a child with a gender identity condition!

Have you heard yourself? Parents of trans children don't "encourage" they kids to change sex, as that is physically impossible! Most trans kids are not on any medication whatsoever (my child isn't as I refused). You have to go through years of counselling to even ve considered for gender reassignment surgery, it doesn't happen overnight. I won't even allow him to take any form of medication until he is 18 and can decide for himself.

FGS don't chat shit about stuff u don't understand!

You can't change sex, as trans people are not saying that at all!

This.

Oh what tangled webs we weave when first we practice to deceive.

How about asking your DD who identifies as trans at her school? She might know more than you think.

Standard English is that third person pronouns are sex class based. If the teachers are using wrong sex pronouns for this child they are lying to the other children. They are saying the child is female when they are male.

Unless the other children and parents are clear everyone gets to choose non sex based pronouns and it's all non standard gender pronouns based English (and consent to that deviation from their children being taught and communicated to in normal standard English);then it's lying. And it's a safeguarding failure.

The thing is that the other sorts of things that are kept confidential aren’t things that affect others and are likely to be medical or family circumstance related not the validation of a delusion. And, crucially, they don’t involve lying, they involve not disclosing nformation. I can’t imagine what a child who might have been friends for years would feel when they find out that they’ve been ‘tricked’. How would you get your head round that?
It is also not gossiping to share the truth if it is something that parents should be aware of. At what point does the school intend to make parents/staff aware - before or after it becomes a safeguarding issue?

No the OP has said that they have used conjecture to make a presumption that this girl is biologically a boy.

Where do we draw a line on adults in safeguarding positions sharing a child's personal info with their peers?

A child having previously committed a crime?
The reason a child was excluded from their last school?
A child having an illness like HIV?
A child's parent being in prison, not abroad as they tell their friends?
A child being a traveller?
A child being intersex - having the external genitals of a girl but internal gonads and higher testosterone levels?
A child who has genital difference that might cause upset if they were to be dating someone. (Thinking of the pp who said that this child should be outed because if a boy fancies her they would be humiliated and might lose their temper - surely this could happen in this situation too?).

vivienne, these days most people with disorders of sexual development will know if they are male or female as that will have been genetically tested. None of your examples involve tricking people in such a fundamental way - they don’t involve the child themself pretending to be something else that really is significant. An 8 yo girl finding out that her best friend is a traveller is not the same as finding out that he’s a boy not a girl ffs. That is a fundamental deception that changes the entire basis of the relationship!

I think you're not being entirely truthful here.
You know very well that travellers are horribly discriminated against and that many parents would not want their child being friends with a traveller. If a parent stopped a child being friends with or dating another because they are a traveller that would fundamentally change their relationship too.

But a child has every right not to disclose their cultural background or personal details, especially if they belong to a group that is discriminated against- as is the case with child criminals, children with stigmatised conditions and illnesses, children of prisoners, children who have been previously permanently excluded, and tranchildren.

And yes, many will know (though actually not if they only show signs of sex difference in puberty), but what if someone was genetically a boy with the external sex characteristics of a girl? What if they were raised as a girl and are just getting used to their diagnosis now? Should their classmates all be told their medical details because medically they're a boy and we're lying if we call them a girl? It is far more common to have an intersex condition than to be trans. So are you suggesting we "out" all of these children too?