Year 8 trans child - in secret

[WoollyMammoth1]

The recent news article about the trans child at a primary school made me think of sharing a similar story at my DD school, big difference being is that's a secondary school.
DD is in year 8, there's a child in her year that identifies as a girl but is a boy. No one at school, besides staff knows, DD doesn't know either as whilst I feel bad withholding the information, I don't want her to keep this secret at school.

The child has a sibling at the school, who calls him by his girl name. They change in the disabled changing room and use the disabled toilet.

I found out through social media, the parent came up as a possible contact, their profile is open and there were many pictures of her children when younger making it very clear. Absolutely no doubt.

When I first found out, I researched and found there is little I can do. The child's rights seem to trump all others.

DD and the child started building a friendship last year, but this went sour. Which I am glad for considering the circumstances.

My issue here is the deceit and secrecy. Non of the year group know the child is a boy which is such an obvious safeguarding risk, and once they find out they'll feel betrayed. Any friendships are based on a lie. And I feel like I am condoning the situation by not saying anything, esp to DD.

The child lives further from school then most other kids, likely to try and ensure there were no other children at the school that might know them.

It feels wrong to keep things quiet, esp for my daughters, and other girls in her year's sake, so hoping that someone here may have some good ideas in where to go from here.

(Long term Mumsnetter, name changed for this post)

None of the things you have mentioned are things that matter to kids when making friends though.

Vivienne - in the (unlikely) situation you are describing there is no deliberate lying though. And, to be blunt, no penis so less potential safeguarding worries.

You think? A child in secondary school wouldn't treat a child differently if they had been convicted of a crime? If they had a parent in prison?

Sadly you are so very, very wrong. Because discrimination and prejudice is picked up at home, ALL of the things I mention would affect a secondary-aged child's choice of friends.

Yes there is????

In the intersex case the child knows they are medically boy, as do staff.

In the criminal child case the child will have to make up details about their past that aren't true.

In the parent in prison case the child will have to tell elaborate lies (I've taught a child whose mother was in prison for murder, he told everyone she was dead).

In the case of being previously permanently excluded, again they will have to tell lies about why they moved school.

In the medical case they might lie about medications they are taking, or the reason for hospital visits.

You're being obtuse or perhaps naive, but all of these things are things I have read on safeguarding notes and have also been told that the child has their own narrative that helps then to keep their details private.

yes Maybe a child who was a known criminal might find that some children don’t want to be friends with them, I think those kids would be quite reasonable. I don’t think having a father in prison would make a difference- kids tend to make friends with people they like and have something in common with.

I haven’t read all the posts. I don’t mean to come across as rude, but it is not your business to know what parts a child has- it should have no impact on your life. This is a child who is likely to be going through a significant amount of stress, trying to live as their authentic self. I imagine the thoughts of being “outed” are overwhelming.
in my experience of trans kids they just want to be accepted for who they are - you snooping on social media and potentially putting them is wrong.

v Vienne and n your made up example you said that the person with dsd had only just found out themselves, that’s why I said there was no intentional lying. I don’t know why you can’t see that pretending to be the opposite sex is very different to not telling people that your family member is in prison- they just aren’t comparable.

I think you don't know many teenagers. I've worked with thousands of them over 25 years. And yes, all of these things would change how they are treated by their peers, which is why we don't disclose them.

It's a sad fact of life that many children harbour prejudices because of the things they hear from their parents. I also would not tell a parent if they came to me and said that they'd seen on social media and could I confirm it as they think their child is being lied to by a friend.

I can see that seeing things from different points of view is challenging for some. Let's just say that safeguarding decisions (for many different reasons) are made by professionals and not by social media snooping parents.

And my "made-up" intersex child was a family member of mine (now an adult). When they did not go through puberty as expected they discovered that despite believing they were a girl (and having had no indication of sex difference) they were genetically a boy. They found out in (the equivalent of) Year 9, but decided to continue to live as a girl - or as posters here would say - continued to "lie".

No one has a right to other people's personal details, unless this right supersedes (in law) the other person's right to privacy.

Vivienne- I don’t think we should disclose those things either, we agree on that. But I don’t think any of them are comparable to concealing someone’s sex. No one is going to feel upset if they find out their friend of many years had previously been expelled/ dad in prison/ medical condition (well, that would be upsetting for other reasons). They might be surprised, feel sorry for the person, wonder why they kept it secret but if they find out they are actually the opposite sex that is potentially very upsetting.

We're not going to agree. But can I just say, I really appreciate your civility in your responses. Thank you, this is not often my experience on Mumsnet.

I’m glad you think my responses have been civil - I wonder why you called me ‘obtuse’, ‘naive’, ‘ seeing things from different points of view is challenging for some’,’I think you don't know many teenagers.’, ‘you are so very, very wrong’, and ‘I think you're not being entirely truthful here.’ before thanking me for it. So generous of you. Something to think about, and perhaps reflect on there being nuance and different viewpoints from your own point of vuew. You surely can admit that it might be upsetting for a child to find out that their friend was a boy not a girl - or can’t you see things from others viewpoints yourself?

A child who is pretending to be the opposite sex is not living as their authentic self. There's nothing authentic about pretending to be something you are not.

If they weren't pretending, with the assistance of adults who really ought to know better, they wouldn't have to worry about being outed.

Encouraging children to live duplicitous lives is damaging for their mental health. They should be allowed to just be children.

No child is a transsexual.

You're absolutely correct. You went high when i went low, I reflected on this when I wrote my last post. I am sorry.

I have a non-binary child, an inter-sex cousin, and also we have had several "gender-questioning" children die by suicide in our county's schools over the last 4 years - I do find it difficult not to get upset.

I really do apologise for my tone. Thank you again

you tell your child immediately. You owe your child honesty and safeguarding techniques. You owe the other child nothing except common decency which doesn't include lying by omission tou your own child .

plus the kids have probably worked it out already but don't feel able to discuss it with adults, another safeguarding fail.

You don't have an intersex cousin, they are either male or female with a chromosome difference.

Assuming your child apart from the belief they are not the sex they actually are is perfectly fit and healthy they shouldn't be using the disabled facilities. I'm getting rather sick of the fact that using a space that is specifically designed for those who actually need it is fast becoming the go to response of how to solve the problem, rather than sort out a proper third space for those who don't want to use the facilities that match their actual sex but not the feelings in their head. School and you should not be encouraging her to use the disabled facilities.

She is a woman with XY chromosomes. She uses the term intersex for herself (obviously not in general conversation, or often at all, but when necessary).

A couple of points after a couple of drinks. (I’ve been out - in the sense that I’ve left the house.)

People who are saying it will be “obvious soon enough” should consider that it is their attitudes which might hasten a child down a medical path which they could have taken more time to consider if they were allowed to rest easy in their identity.

12 year old children are not the same as predatory men who falsely identify as trans. Sleepovers will not be a problem.

How is it a secret when the mother publicises the truth on social media? Without even locking down her account to protect her child's privacy.

I would tell the school that unless they make every parent aware then I will be outing the child to everyone.

And AFAIK that would be a hate crime for which you could be charged. A good thing, imho.

This is also the case at a secondary school my sister teaches at. The child is a boy but joined the school as a girl (year 7). The mum is insistent that no one is allowed to know. I am unsure how that child is going to cope when puberty hits.

Almost everything I have read about gender questioning children from gender critical adults say that we should allow space for the child to realise that stereotypes of gender shouldn’t dictate their gender identity (that female children who “feel” male should be educated that strong, big, (insert male stereotypical descriptor here) women exist)

im not gender critical myself, but the advice above is sensible for all children I think?

I don’t see how any compassionate adult would advocate for taking away this space/time by “outing” a child to their classmates??

no matter your views, if you want to talk and/or report anything it must surely be to teachers, social services or doctors? Why on earth would your first act be to tell your child when (from the initial post) they haven’t shown any concern or distress??

That’s a complicated way of thinking about it. Our attitudes are not the reason it will become obvious.

it becomes obvious because of biology. Because people have eyes. Not because of anyones attitude.

How do you figure people have to pretend it won’t become obvious and pretend, to stop children medically transitioning? How does that work?