Thank you: Debbie Hayton in the Mail

[Needmoresleep]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13011839/I-went-agonising-operation-thought-woman-finally-make-happy-devastating-revelation.html

Thanks theilltempered…

Take a look at the trans widow threads on here.

They are a mine of information. And you realise, pretty quickly, that there is a pattern.

One of the things that is noticeable is how, because of transgender campaigning by stonewall, etc, what would normally be considered abusive behaviour is rebranded as brave and stunning.

A lot of the transwidows struggle to even find a single therapist who would be on their side.

The relentless painting of an AGP man as a victim precludes a lot of women getting support, or even people understanding their situation. Including friends and family.

Look how the narrative in yesterday's article produced so many BTL comments of support for Debbie.

People are pre-programmed, or have been up until now, to think of these men as sad, struggling and misunderstood, who deserve all the compassion we can give them.

When the entire ideology is sold on the basis of Be Kind, or else, the women are just collateral damage.

I really like and respect Debbie, happy to refer to her as she, although appreciate the point Debbie makes about never actually being a woman, so that's just what feels comfortable to me. I think Debbie has done alot to stand up against gender ideology. It is interesting to me that if a female teacher spoke out against gender ideology then they would be sacked (previously perhaps) but with Debbie they wouldn't bloody dare!

Blimey. See!

Oh dear.

It also doesn’t help when theoretically feminist groups celebrate men like Debbie instead of putting their wives / partners / daughters first. I hope Debbie’s children come across https://childrenoftransitioners.org/ soon, if they haven’t already.

Right on cue, Datun!

To my massive and everlasting embarrassment I was where LondonLass was at the start of my journey of understanding. I credit the many knowledgeable women on FWR & TinselAngel transwidows threads for helping through that journey quicker than I might have done.

I felt the DM nailed it at one point when they asked Hayton “were you aware how insufferable you were?”

Impeccable timing there, londonlass.

I promise that's not a sock 😄

But there it is.

Unwitting participation in the fetish with pronouns because you think it's kind. Tick.

Oblivious to the safeguarding disaster of an AGP teacher setting their own school guidelines. Tick

Not unduly bothered that he will be listened to more than women, and you like, respect, and appreciate him. Tick

Believing you are getting treated to an honest narrative, by a man opposed to gender ideology, despite being a self-confessed autogynophile. Tick.

Also I wonder what has persuaded that poster that participating in this will make them feel more comfortable? Also a tick.

Someone who, presumably, doesn't even know Debbie.

Don't be embarrassed @TrainedByCatsToBeScathing I vaguely thought he might be helpful when I first came into this because I assumed he must be gay. I was horrified when I discovered (via the Stella O Malley doc) that he had a wife, which changed my views completely.

Thank-you TinselAngel I think my embarrassment is probably good for me. In slight defence of my past self in my naivety I knew nothing about AGP. Finding out about it was a real moment of clarity in why my dealings with TW colleagues had all been ‘weird and unsettling’ in a way they weren’t for my male colleagues.

There’s an aspect of Hayton’s current appearance that screams AGP that he shares with many TW and really gives me the ick but I’ve been deleted before for alluding to it (interestingly he ‘toned’ it down for the DM photos). His thoughts on what ludicrous thing he thinks increases womens social standing with other women gives a clue

People are pre-programmed, or have been up until now, to think of these men as sad, struggling and misunderstood, who deserve all the compassion we can give them.

People can be sad, struggling, misunderstood, marginalised and in need of compassion while also being abusive, risky, lacking in boundaries or actively transgressing boundaries.

The simplistic idea that if someone is a victim they are therefore de facto harmless is in itself a very naive and dangerous one.

To be clear: I'm not talking about DH here or any specific person, here.

I just want to note that abusers very very often have sad backstories - it's quite unsurprising if you think about it and may sometimes explain why they act as they do.

However they are also prone to using sad stories as a means to exert control, manipulate, gaslight, destabilise and threaten.

How often do we hear women on the Relationships board say they can't leave because they're scared he'll 'do something stupid'?

One of the things that is noticeable is how, because of transgender campaigning by stonewall, etc, what would normally be considered abusive behaviour is rebranded as brave and stunning.

A lot of the transwidows struggle to even find a single therapist who would be on their side.

The relentless painting of an AGP man as a victim precludes a lot of women getting support, or even people understanding their situation. Including friends and family.

This. In the 20th century, a woman whose husband was revealed to be TV got sympathy and wasn't expected to support him or stick around. The relentless promotion of genderism fixed this 'problem' and created a lot of new ones.

Now DH wants to dismantle genderism whilst keeping his own existing advantages (hmm, what does that remind me of?).

I would love to see his employers ask him to dress in a suit, because they don't want him practising his sexual fetish in front of the children.

Oh yes, indeed. And who wants to be a person without compassion?

It's hard to not let it cloud one's judgement, of course.

I would love to see his employers ask him to dress in a suit, because they don't want him practising his sexual fetish in front of the children.

I realise, that after all the campaigning, it's really quite difficult to ask certain men not to wear women's clothes as a fetish. Giving cross dressers civil rights has been a massive coup.

But Debbie, surely must be different. Debbie has told everyone. He's entirely upfront about it.

Yet they still don't.

I don't feel sad or impressed for DH.

The link to trans children resource was informative, from a very important perspective.

Agree most desirable outcome is that fetishes are not on public display whatever they are, but the one we are discussing are using GI as the cloak to hide in.

Datum i wonder what his book will say about that. I think he kinda covered it in the exerts, but not sure …

No idea. If you're going to buy it, perhaps you can let us know. But I guarantee it will be subject to a lot of spin.

Yet they still don't.

Well not yet. It's a gamble on his part, reliant on the rest of us continuing to be nice.

He's really bringing out my inner Mary Whitehouse!

Trans feels a mixture of AGP individuals, social contagion in young people on the spectrum and mental illness with a growing group of perverts who just want to access women's spaces and see this as in way in.

Women are shoved aside by many attempting to enable this mixed group of reasons and had been largely ignored. Now real biological women are expressing concerns in growing numbers.

@Datun don't blame anybody for not wanting to read it.

Will be sure to let you all know my thoughts, and maybe seek advice from you lot.

Would like to see his families own experiences expressed

I will find out…

I've skimmed the daily mail article.

If anyone is in any doubt about how a characteristic of this fetish is escalation, he says this:

He first told Stephanie that he'd cross dressed only once or twice before and he'd never do it again. She had no idea it was a current thing.

Then he said he wanted to transition but he wouldn't.

And then he said if only he could grow his hair long.

Then he said he was actually going to transition.

Then he said he'll wait until after the kids have left.

But then he transitioned three months after they told the children.

Then he promised he'd keep it private.

Then he flouted his promise and told everyone.

And he says how liberated he was by telling her all this.

Then he told the whole world he gets turned on by wearing women's clothing, and has had surgery.

Now he's written a book about it all.

One wonders where the escalation will go to next? I mean, what's left?

As a women still learning, could someone explain this to me, by PM if necessary:

There’s an aspect of Hayton’s current appearance that screams AGP that he shares with many TW