Thank you: Debbie Hayton in the Mail

[Needmoresleep]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13011839/I-went-agonising-operation-thought-woman-finally-make-happy-devastating-revelation.html

The other reason we should never say yes to the ‘younger pubescent trans girls, [who] have penises and are biologically male, but with make up, long hair and fashionable clothing on a slender not yet developed frame’ is they get older and remain just as entitled and belligerent that their wishes are paramount.

Empressaurus
He mentions women’s sex based rights and how transactivism harms him because it affects women’s attitude to transsexuals, but doesn’t say whether he avoids using women’s toilets etc.

“Boiledbeetle · 27/01/2024 08:56

“despite the fact that he is being honest on where he on the issue, and he could have a simpler life if he didn't say anything he's still a man pretending, especially to the casual observer who doesn't know his personal history, that he is a woman. If he truly wanted to put someone other than himself first and do the right thing he would go back to Mr Hayton and not use the women's toilets (I don't believe he's stopped doing that has he?)”.

In the Janice Turner article interviewing (or about Debbie Hayton), which was in a thread not long ago, Debbie said he did not use womens’ toilets.

I'm not bothered really whether the bloke doing it is waving a sword at me

Ah, the sword wielder. Was that really Adrienne Cohea in 2019?

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3660642-Taking-a-sword-to-the-toilets?

asking in almost so many words 'how are you going to stop me flaunting my fetish, without completely over the top laws about clothing?'

Creepy indeed. However, we don't need laws to stop creeps flaunting their fetishes. We simply need, on a societal level, to show disgust and revulsion as we used to do. We need to bring back shame. We (as a society) need to stop celebrating and indulging creepy behaviour and start sending it underground again.

What does this look like? For example, telling a man to leave when he enters the ladies loo or changing room, and in a tone of horrified indignation. Looking askance at someone dressed clearly provocatively in the daytime in the street.

What does this not look like? Employing a fetishistic cross dresser as a physics teacher in a school (or in any other role, obvs). Getting a man to play the piano with his penis on national TV. Taking small children to drag acts.

I could go on.

Honestly, Stella is all about helping the AGPs and never comes across as that interested in helping the women and children affected by the behaviour of these men. She seems to have some sort of saviour complex with regards to these men or something, I dunno. She definitely identifies with them a lot more than she’s ever managed to identify with transwidows, as far as I can see.

Maybe she finds them interesting from a professional perspective? It’s easy to understand (in principle) the feelings of trans widows, though maybe harder to fully empathise.

I attended a talk about 'gender euphoria' recently and basically it was about the delight in successfully deceiving people or forcing them to say that you are the opposite sex. Mainly transmen, testosterone is such a powerful drug that the changes exogenous T wreaks on a female body are unmistakeable. The transwomen presenter looked and sounded exactly as you could predict. The non-binary contributors looked and sounded just like the women they were, I can't understand how they can get so upset about being misgendered when they look and sound exactly like half the population.

This movement has lies and deceit at its core.

“if I can disguise myself convincingly enough as a woman, then I should be allowed to get away with it'.*

Exactly - you see this so much from TRAs. Yet it’s the only area of life where anyone thinks like this and thinking like this is encouraged. We don’t say, “oh you did a great impression of a security guard/qualified brain surgeon/someone with cerebral palsy/someone of a different ethnicity/age/nationality so now you get to be treated as that and get whatever the person you impersonated is entitled to.” In ANY other context, we understand there is a reality, even if it may sometimes be hard to prove, and deceit is deceit.

This is because there are some people (I have met some) around today who genuinely think the only difference between the sexes is in how they're perceived.

For example they are convinced that there would be no sexism in the workplace if all women wore trousers and flat shoes.

These people, ime, are usually young and have had no experience of (say) the completely different experience men and women have when becoming a parent, both physically, socially and financially. Or the different experience of unwanted sexual contact for men and women (ie a man can usually simply walk away, whereas a woman is overpowered).

They do not believe in the inherent physical dimorphism between the sexes. They just don't believe it.

Nb I'm talking now about the enablers, lanyard wearers. I think many predatory men know exactly what they're doing.

Edit: when I say a man can walk away, I mean from a woman. I know men can be abused by men.

Also link this into the lobby belief on sex by deception: which is essentially that if someone successfully and intentionally cons you into beginning sex believing the person is of the sex they claim (aloud or by signals) to be, and then discover that they have in fact deceived you into a situation that you would not knowingly have consented to, you should have no recourse regarding that they have tried to con you into a non consensual sex act because their feelings, privacy and dignity.

You, obviously, can just get to fuck.

NICE people co operate nicely with being conned, don't mind, have no boundaries or needs or feelings of their own, and if they discover they've been the subject of such confidence trickery are all and only about the very special needs of the one who just used them. In a non consensual, deceitful and quite possibly criminal way. Be an enabling doormat kind.

when you lay it all out like that, it sounds r*pey as all heck

The Gay Men’s Network has written very well about this ‘sex by deception’.

”Deception as to Biological Sex in cases of Rape and serious Sexual Offences”
Response to the Crown Prosecution Service’s consultation.
November 2022

An excellent point.

Plus the additional suggestion that asking about the truth of someone's sex or doubting it is a kind of horrific blasphemy or hate crime.

And also: 'lesbian, learn to cope with straight sex and validate me with your body' with failure to do so being a devastating insult to the person's chosen identity.

It reflects some very, very disordered thinking and values.

@Mumoftwo1312 One of the things I realised in the last few years of my working life is the new joiners who were 22, 23, 24 year old high achieving women on the graduate schemes had benefitted from being given equal academic opportunities. They didn’t know what discrimination due to their sex in an academic/work related situation looked or felt like.

However, those who were slightly older and had their first baby suddenly were faced with the reality of how different the experience is for Dads vs Mums. It’s the first time they understood sex mattered in a professional setting.

I find it fascination that most men who have AGP or GD wait until they have had children and climbed the career ladder before they decide to transition.

However, those who were slightly older and had their first baby suddenly were faced with the reality

Yeah that about covers it. My politics changed basically overnight, particularly with respect to women's rights. I suddenly realised the world isn't fair and I'd been had. Several things happened including being encouraged to quit my highly academic second job when pregnant "because you'll be so busy as a mother". Nb as a contractor I didn't get any maternity pay anyway.

Separately around the same time, a man I knew, friend of a friend, (coincidentally an avid TRA and with predictable politics) got given a non-custodial suspended sentence for a really awful sick crime. The world doesn't care about women or children.

I'd been brought up being told that equality had been achieved. Women's rights - check! What a scam. Then to add insult to injury, some of the most privileged of men (older, educated, wealthy, in the public eye) suddenly claim to be women - that they've "always been" women!

Despicable.