Confused on the concept of non binary

[ireallycantthinkofaname]

Please be nice, i am not the sharpest knife in the box under normal circumstances and I'm running on about 6 hrs sleep over the past week at the minute.....

But something I've been trying and failing to understand re. the concept of 'non binary' in the 'gender movement' (or whatever it is/ought to be called) is that on the one hand, people who subscribe to that philosophy are saying they reject the traditional idea of explicit male/femaleness (because if "trans women are women" then they have swapped for instance). But then if you have 'non binary' individuals isn't that pretty much saying oh yes, actually there is a binary - and some people don't subscribe to it?

I do acknowledge sex =/= gender but not all NB people are intersex/have DSD

<<thoroughly discombobulated>>

I’m pretty sure OldCrone would still have a female body and therefore be a woman even if she was, say, in a coma.

He comes from a neutral third person pronoun for a human being: hi. She comes from a pronoun that refers to a female thing: seo.

That’s one theory.

The other theory is that it is derived from the nominative personal feminine pronoun hēo,hīo.

Fork me, Barry. Fork me.
"Provoke escalations." I haven't heard a euphemism like that since I was ... let's just leave it at: I think this is what the kids call being triggered.
If someone is rude to you and you respond by being violent that is because you have chosen to be violent. Not because she was rude to you.
On the upside, watching the genderist argument go all Deepak Chopra was an unexpected twist, and mildly diverting.

If someone is rude to you and you respond by being violent that is because you have chosen to be violent. Not because she was rude to you.

And it's so inherently sex-based as well. Men are usually the ones that become violent. The people arguing on this thread are mostly women.

The whole argument upthread about rudeness provoking escalations reads like it's your own stupid womanly fault if you correctly sex someone and a man punches you.

This makes no sense. Citation please.

On the upside, watching the genderist argument go all Deepak Chopra was an unexpected twist, and mildly diverting.

I think this kind of proves the point though. If you have to go all Deepak Chopra to try and explain non-binary and it still doesn’t work, how can it be written into legislation? And how can it be the basis for medical treatments for children?

Being a woman only requires someone to be an adult female human.

What happens to someone's gender identity when they are unconscious?

Don't you mean the logical extreme?

What happens to someone's gender identity when they are unconscious?

Or dead? Can we not talk about women in history anymore, or men in history for that matter?

Non binary doesn't mean anything. It's an attempt by normal people who are just like everyone else to be perceived as special and different, as said by a self-proclaimed non binary woman (a grown adult wallowing in the nonsense!) who 'wasn't like the other girls' on a clip I was shown of one of those stupid channel 5 rentagob shows. It's also a highly narcisstic attempt to make themselves the focus of everyone else with their pronoun demands, claims of fragility etc that others just have to cater to no matter what's going on in their own lives, everyone else is just background scenery to the special non binary after all.

I'd love an explanation as to how they know they're special and different and not the most boring stereotype of the average member of their sex. Or maybe I wouldn't because I'm not that interested in them. Luckily I'm not in a social class that indulges it.

It's attention seeking bollocks.

20 or 30 years ago most ‘trans’ teens and NB types would simply have become goths or emos - and at least they had some good music to listen to.

What does a gender non conforming woman look like?

Maybe she is sketching 3d car designs in a cad program. Maybe she is raiding with her video game clan. Maybe she is buying heavy machinery. Maybe she is watching a football match.

What she looks like doesn’t have to mean what she is wearing.

A lot of the posts on the subject of NB and freedom to be oneself just smack of homophobia disqiused as intellectual rhetoric ..

Who decides what is gender conforming or nonconforming?

Is a female footballer gender nonconforming? What happens if she moves to the USA, where soccer is mainly a women's sport? Is she now gender conforming?

What happens when the female car designer goes home from work and gets out her sewing machine to make herself a dress. Has she gone from gender nonconforming to conforming?

None of us are Mermaids-style stereotypes. Labels like gender (non) conforming are unhelpful.

It makes much more sense to describe a specific behaviour or characteristic as "gender non-conforming" than a person. Most of us have a mix of behaviours and characteristics, some of them conform to the norms and expectations and stereotypes for our sex, and others don't. No-one is "gender non-conforming" in every possible way. Or "gender conforming" in every possible way either. People who call themselves "gender non-conforming" only mean that they don't conform in one or two very obvious ways, not in all ways. They might have some very typical behaviours for their own sex in other ways (even if they are not aware of them)

Telling other people that you are "non-binary" is somewhere between pointless and meaningless. There is no difference between someone who calls themselves non-binary and someone who doesn't, there is nothing that "non-binary" people have in common that other people don't. If someone says they're "non-binary" then thing I need to know is "ok so are a you a non-binary woman or a non-binary man?" Becausae everybody is one sex or the other and if there is a difference at at all it's their sex that makes the difference.

This post reveals the issue at the heart of this modern fad. People now feel they have to have a 'gender identity' and label themselves accordingly.

Most people, however, do not subscribe to the idea of 'gender identity' and just get on with being and expressing themselves in their everyday life. Some people might consciously, or unconsciously, try to conform to social stereotypes, while others consciously reject them. We have freedom in our culture, now, to dress, express, and take up any hobby or job for which we are qualified.

We are all a unique blend of qualities and characteristics but our precise and individual pattern does not really require an identity label to go with it. That really is just a cumbersome plea for attention or to be seen as somehow special or different to others. It tends to irritate others as it is narcissistic and quite demanding.

That post also ignores that if it’s normal and isn’t meant to be medicalised, why is it being medicalised? I know of teenage girls looking to take a “little bit” of testosterone to get a “little bit” of masculinisation to fit their perception of “non-binary”. There are girls looking for mastectomies.

There is a surgical industry in the USA offering “nullification” procedures. It’s horrifying. And all based on something that no one has been able to explain.

https://alignsurgical.com/nullification/

https://queerdoc.com/nullectomy-nullification/

Yes, people who think "non-binary" is a nice safe gender identity are out of date and naive. See the recent thread about Liv Hewson who's expressed their non-binary identity by cutting their breasts off. And by telling everyone about it in Teen Vogue.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4987053-liv-hewson-non-binary-actor-with-mastectomy-in-teen-vogue?page=5&reply=132358988

A lot of the posts on the subject of NB and freedom to be oneself just smack of homophobia disqiused as intellectual rhetoric ..

In what sense?

The entire concept of non binary for humans is nonsense. Which is why it doesnt make sense. There isnt any such thing as feeling like a woman/man. You either are or you arent. XX chromosomes or XY. There is no inbetween and no amount of clothing, drugs or surgery can enable a person to switch.

I know of teenage girls looking to take a “little bit” of testosterone to get a “little bit” of masculinisation to fit their perception of “non-binary”.

It disturbs me how casually some people treat testosterone. It's not like getting a lip filler or some other minor cosmetic injection. It causes unpredictable bodily and health changes in women and raises the risk of cancer.

One time in conversation with a group of very pro-trans friends, I mentioned having heard my voice on a recording and being dismayed at how high pitched it sounded. The immediate response, from an older adult (I was maybe 20): "Why don't you try T?"

Thankfully I had the sense not to listen to him!

society used to order people in terms of what they did : if you were the butcher, the baker, the doctor, you had a social standing, you were somewhat elevated.

then we had a hierarchy of what you owned, in the 90s or so. The best trainers, flash cars ets.

Currently society has a power hierarchy of victimhood. When someone states in a room, work setting or online that they are some sort of minority, they get the upper hand, the power in that space. They can demand people tip toe around themz they can police people's speech, and claim offence at innocent people. It is perfect for malignant narcissists.

I think in many cases NB is for otherwise very average, 'priviliged' people to easily gain a victim identity, and in doing so have power over others.

There are other chromosome combinations, but they are medical disorders, not sexes. They occur within the two sex binary system.

Which is what we see in so many of these court cases. A good number of them revolve around a NB person who has claimed offence, and has created a massive drama around themselves.