Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

Deflection. Diversion.

Orwell strikes again. In 1984, the main character was about to have his face eaten by rats (I think - may have been something equally horrible) and was desperately screaming that they should ‘Do it to Julia’, his ally, instead.

That's a really interesting piece, Utopia.

Perhaps the learning is not to search for a compromise, but to stop trying to find one and just accept the tracks are parallel, but separate.

the Brighton Collective said behind-the-scenes negotiations were being affected by their inability to distance themselves from unaffiliated women, just because the women called themselves feminists.

Just highlighting this in case anyone was still in doubt about the fairness of calling this group gentry left/ head girls etc. These women think they own feminism and that their way is the only way, and us little people should shut up and let our betters get on with their important work of sucking up to Labour while Labour piss away women's rights feministing.

And for that, they can fuck off.

I think that’s very much the way of thinking that I’m coming to.

There’s no pleasing some people ideologically, and sometimes compromise on the best way to achieve an objective isn’t possible, so there’s nothing wrong with having multiple strands and approaches to tackling an objective.

I mean, thats why countries have multiple political parties - they all have different concepts of how best to govern their country. So why not have multiple feminist approaches (and try hard to ignore the pushback from ideological puritans).

I generally assume you are all Empresses/all Empresses are you.

Displacement!

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/basics/displacement

Thank you to those who have taken the time to explain some behind the scenes stuff. Especially for the links, to help make my own mind up, and for thought provoking contributions.

Some things now make more sense, what with not living in the holy place and all, nor living my life on Twitter. I can't be the only one looking in thinking that. Tbh I feel a bit of a fool for earnestly supporting things that have turned out not to be what I thought they were. Oh well.

The gentry left, is a new phrase to me, but totally sums up a certain kind of person. Those who think they are a cut above women who spend their lives doing their best, in their own circumstances, for women and girls. Those who kid themselves that they are superior, somehow, to the rest of us who don't look to wear badges, nor hector other women publicly just to do them down to gain an audience for their self important clique.

I'm with the women who say things as they are. Who are active, unpaid and paid, for the rest of us, and whom I know speak up for women and girls, whatever the personal cost.

the Brighton Collective said behind-the-scenes negotiations were being affected by their inability to distance themselves from unaffiliated women, just because the women called themselves feminists.

That's too bad. Not sure who appointed them to speak for all feminists?

Women are shamed for using words to describe ourselves yet expected to accept words created by people who do not respect our rights. Men, no matter how they ‘identify’ define themselves and expect women to meekly accept these definitions.

The word ‘woman’ is now highly problematic for some and now ‘feminist’. Words are being taken from us by design.

I am a woman and a feminist. I use the original definitions of these words. I want equality, real equality for women (not men no matter how they ‘identify’) all females, even if I don’t know them, don’t like them, don’t agree with them they are still women. Why are we listening to those scolding us for not doing performative feminism which seems to centre males?

I've never been to a KJK event but admire her consistency in platforming women*

Agree. While KJK isn't perfect and has done her own unfair scolding (at US women for voting Biden) she exhibits the same principle I and many others did when we criticized the Women's March for excluding anti choice women's groups from marching while platforming men on speaking platforms. It angered me and many other feminists because anti choice women were still women and had as much right to march as we pro choice women. I'm very much in disagreement with women who are anti choice but I'd prefer to march and talk with them than pretend they don't exist.

Plus, this particular anti choice group was primarily young women and I thought we might be able to persuade them to see our pro choice point of view. You can't learn or grow if your activism is in siloes.

when we criticized the Women's March for excluding anti choice women's groups from marching while platforming men on speaking platforms.
I didn't know about that Delphinium20
I was going to go on and make some further pithy comment but all I can think of is

Clabony, you are not any level of fool. Or if you are, I'm twenty times as much of a fool as you, because of the time it took me to become fully disillusioned with the Brighton Collective, even though I was reading all their tweets.

I've just been reading through the 2020 thread about the Morning Star cartoon, which I missed at the time. (Looking at the dates, I was on a training course that week, where a fellow attendee told me that humans didn't exhibit sexual dimorphism!)

Back then, I'm sure I would have needed assistance to understand the significance of KH's objections to the cartoon, but I'm equally sure other women on the board would have been happy to provide it. They would have been happy to workshop it with WPUK, too. WPUK should have been standing up for the (female) cartoonist. I think she lost her job over it, didn't she? Given the trade union/Labour party backgrounds of WPUK members, you'd think they'd have extended support to her. Did they?

I tell you, I don't want any of this bunch negotiating for me. I wouldn't trust them to handle a basic pay dispute.

@NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision thanks for your post, not just me then for sure.

I used to mix in Morning Star circles, in with the "gentry" I was . Older and wiser now, mostly from reading this Board back in the days when LangCleg and others were here, and spelling things out to me. When I see people mention about the CP knowing what a woman is, I reflect back to what happened then.

I was really shocked with what happened to Stella, an honest political commentator. She'd been the MS cartoonist for over 5 years when she got cancelled and yes, no one would then touch her work. The Free Speech Union, managing to, rightly, look at the issue, rather than the person, gave her support. I've a lot of time for their non judgeyness given that there are those who like to cry how right wing they are supposed to be,

What shocked me more. were the women who looked the other way. because they were clinging on to their own union/Party positions and the frills that went with them. Much the same as the MS got rid of their cartoonist to pacify their big trades union funders. Money and power always at the back of this crap.

I don't know if you ever saw this article by Stella?
https://uncommongroundmedia.com/stella-perrett-right-of-reply-morning-star/

No, I never saw that! Thank you for linking. Every single time I think I've got to grips with all the aspects of this misogyny-on-crack, I find out something new.

Yes, the Germans are good at that sort of thing.

YES - that is what I was thinking of.

Very frustrating when it happened. First group was a progressive local political org I volunteered for and many of us rather lefty feminists kept pushing back on their "no conservatives" stance because it felt so illiberal but the local Women's March leaders infiltrated our group, made a handmaiden of one our our FB mods and next thing you know we were told to shut up.

The following year's march had all kinds of dictates (no pussy hats, no handmaid tale costumes, no clothes hanger imagery), and we sparred with that same mod because who fucking tells women what to wear to their own march?!? By this time I was on a national FB group of Democrat Women vs Trump and I can't tell you how often we had to push back against the Women's March leadership nonsense and remind women all Americans had a First Amendment Right to freedom of expression and assembly and no group could ban any women from showing up for the march dressed however the fuck they liked.

If there is some kind of feminism 101, I'm pretty sure it's not about banning pink hats!!

From my, and many other people's observation, over the last couple of years, the UK GC space, especially on twitter, has progressively merged with both the US MAGA/Christian nationalist space, and those of UK white nationalists.

I’m not on X/Twitter. But I’ve never seen any evidence for this claim. I rarely see it made by feminists of any kind. I constantly see it made by anti-feminists, without any compelling evidence.

JCJ is a committed feminist. I’m sad to see her making these claims. Factionalism is damaging.

Thanks Delphinium20 - interesting if depressing.

Regarding 'feminist' - I'm in the. 'I've got as much right to the word as you have, Sunshine' camp. But I do understand why some women might want to distance themselves or just decide not to bother arguing about it - all this is exhausting enough as it is.

I am a woman and a feminist. I use the original definitions of these words. I want equality, real equality for women (not men no matter how they ‘identify’) all females, even if I don’t know them, don’t like them, don’t agree with them they are still women. Why are we listening to those scolding us for not doing performative feminism which seems to centre males?

This.

If one group of women should stop calling them feminists it’s the women trying to appease the men who should stop.

As for me I’m going to carry right on calling myself a feminist.

Good on you Delphinium for reminding them of the facts. I’m so envious of Americans’ first amendment rights, I wish we had that level of protection here.

I have to admit that authoritarian behaviour like you experienced is why I’m not much of a group-joiner anymore these days: I hate being dictated to and having to put up with the often ever-lengthening list of asinine ‘Don’ts' that start being proclaimed. Governing behaviour of this sort, by what we used to call 'rules lawyers' in my tabletop gaming days, kills the fire in a lot of people who join local activism groups to try and make a difference.

x.com/katyjon/status/1746205985948013054?s=46&t=PSGltfjrMyZmBtYq2-AVIQ

The responses to this tweet show very effectively how narcissists recruit flying monkeys.