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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

1000 replies

IamSarah · 12/01/2024 11:26

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
ArabellaScott · 13/01/2024 16:32

Youdontgivemeflowers · 13/01/2024 15:48

It’s because of your scathing personality Tinsel, that the trans widows movement hasn’t got off the ground. Everyone is afraid of you. Loads of trans widows won’t go anywhere near you. And nobody will offer an alternative because of fear of attacks from you. You need to stop being so abusive to people you don’t like

Crikey.

Are you like a careers advisor or something?

Helleofabore · 13/01/2024 16:32

Datun · 13/01/2024 16:30

Same. That's what happens when you post the opposite of what is actually occurring. People think it's irony.

And hadn’t there been some of that on this thread too? Like the assumption that women are upset that the Brighton Feminists are the ‘wrong sort’ of feminists when it is the other way round.

ArabellaScott · 13/01/2024 16:32

Fortune teller? Psychologist? Life coach?

ArabellaScott · 13/01/2024 16:33

Astrologer? Someone who writes really long aphorisms for fortune cookies?

Boomboom22 · 13/01/2024 16:34

Surely this is extremely detrimental for your court case? You have shown in public that you sometimes think tw are w. I think this is a terrible look. And very very bad for future donations.
You might as well go full gi now! This is utterly mental tbh.

Helleofabore · 13/01/2024 16:34

Has someone started an alternative trans widows support group and it didn’t get of the ground? Is that the source of the very personal and very specific attacks on Tinsel?

ArabellaScott · 13/01/2024 16:34

Were you ever tempted to write 'help, I'm trapped in a fortune cookie making factory' on one? Or do you just go for the personal attacks and nasty accusations, generally?

TheClogLady · 13/01/2024 16:35

pickledandpuzzled · 13/01/2024 16:24

To clarify, @AdamRyan , my statement wasn’t at all aimed at you- it’s charges I’ve read elsewhere that they are traitors of some kind.

Separately, I assumed the post aimed at Tinsel was a joke based on earlier posts. Are you telling me that was a direct personal attack on Tinsel?

score GIF

I thought that was an ironic post too!

If you aren’t at least a bit mardy you’d never survive against a TRA attack and crikey knows the collective ex wives of men who ran off to Malaga Airport get a lot of trans wrath* directed towards them.

*trans wrath/trans joy gender dysphoria/gender euphoria.

As for why we may or may not have been cosplaying as Stephen Whittle I cannot recall, but I’m thinking about the ladies with beards in Life of Brian…

RebelliousCow · 13/01/2024 16:37

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 16:22

I suppose for me I don't think much unites women - only biology and patriarchal behaviours stemming from oppression of women (sexual harassment, belittling, exclusion, etc etc).

I'm as likely to disagree with a woman's opinion as I am with a mans. What I want is to see women treated with the same human rights, dignity and respect men enjoy.

But there are and will always remain differences between the sexes. You seem to want to eliminate ( or deny) differences, or suggest that any differences that remain even after equalities legislation and 'equal opportunities' are down purely to "patriarchal oppression". Men don't have female dignity or female rights. Equalities legislation takes into consideration differences and offers some protection for those differences.

You don't think there is anything that unites all women? I'd say the only thing that unites all women is their femaleness; their sexed body and what flows from that. I don't dislike women just because of their religion or political tribe ( evn if i disagree with some of the beliefs or positions which might stem from that). I can see what unites us all as women, and have empathy and common cause with that.

You say you dislike Miriam Cates because she wants respect for women in their role as mothers, whereas you seem to think that motherhood is an oppression for women. A regressive role. If a woman wants to stay home, bake bread, spend time with her young child, and take a few years off work you see it as regressive; rather than as an opportunity to support or validate that role with legislation. You cannot conceive of her as a feminist. For you a feminist must reject all traditional female roles and occupations. Just because.....

Miriam Cates is not advocating that everyone must do the same thing; after all she works full time as an MP, as well as having a family. She's an educated, independent and outspoken person, not a doormat.

TheClogLady · 13/01/2024 16:37

I kinda like the idea of doing a Billy-Bragg-Dragg act, but I think I’d struggle to replicate his unique singing voice…

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 16:43

RebelliousCow · 13/01/2024 16:37

But there are and will always remain differences between the sexes. You seem to want to eliminate ( or deny) differences, or suggest that any differences that remain even after equalities legislation and 'equal opportunities' are down purely to "patriarchal oppression". Men don't have female dignity or female rights. Equalities legislation takes into consideration differences and offers some protection for those differences.

You don't think there is anything that unites all women? I'd say the only thing that unites all women is their femaleness; their sexed body and what flows from that. I don't dislike women just because of their religion or political tribe ( evn if i disagree with some of the beliefs or positions which might stem from that). I can see what unites us all as women, and have empathy and common cause with that.

You say you dislike Miriam Cates because she wants respect for women in their role as mothers, whereas you seem to think that motherhood is an oppression for women. A regressive role. If a woman wants to stay home, bake bread, spend time with her young child, and take a few years off work you see it as regressive; rather than as an opportunity to support or validate that role with legislation. You cannot conceive of her as a feminist. For you a feminist must reject all traditional female roles and occupations. Just because.....

Miriam Cates is not advocating that everyone must do the same thing; after all she works full time as an MP, as well as having a family. She's an educated, independent and outspoken person, not a doormat.

Edited

How did you get that from me writing that biology unites women?

The only thing that flows from my seed body is menstrual blood.

I did not say I dislike Cates "because she wants respect for women in their role as mothers". I dislike her because her policies will make it much easier for men to apply pressure for women to be financially and emotionally dependent on them when they have children, therefore putting women at greater risk of abuse and harm. As a society we've done a lot to give women financial independence and the ability to get out of abusive situations and I would hate to see us lose that.

The other reason I dislike her is she regularly criticises her own parties actions and policies, as if she isn't one of them, yet doesn't have any workable suggestions herself. See her recent posts about childcare.

TinselAngel · 13/01/2024 16:48

Helleofabore · 13/01/2024 16:34

Has someone started an alternative trans widows support group and it didn’t get of the ground? Is that the source of the very personal and very specific attacks on Tinsel?

Edited

There's loads of other groups. Mostly TRA adjacent, but others which are not. I've no idea how successful they are.

TERFisTHEnewTREND · 13/01/2024 16:53

If I was KJK, I don't think I could ever forget how JCJ etc treated me. I mean, there was a whole issue of The Radical Notion dedicated to slagging KJK off! How pathetic! It's like a middle aged version of Mean Girls.

LoobiJee · 13/01/2024 16:56

ArabellaScott · 13/01/2024 16:32

Crikey.

Are you like a careers advisor or something?

😂

IamSarah · 13/01/2024 16:59

Boomboom22 · 13/01/2024 16:34

Surely this is extremely detrimental for your court case? You have shown in public that you sometimes think tw are w. I think this is a terrible look. And very very bad for future donations.
You might as well go full gi now! This is utterly mental tbh.

Don't be ridiculous.

Being civil to trans identified males does not mean I consider males to be women. Nope.

What would be detrimental to the court case would be claiming trans survivors should not have access to help, or that mixed sex groups should not exist for those that feel comfortable with it.

The reason I posted as 'Sarah' was because JCJ tagged me in the Twitter post and I'd already quote Tweeted it.

Thank you for the feedback but my legal team are happy with my social media activity.

OP posts:
Hepwo · 13/01/2024 17:01

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 16:07

Look at hewpos post two above yours, for what I mean in a context that's nothing to do with me.
Unpleasant and rude. Because a group on here have decided Sarah and the Brighton feminists (whatever that means) are the wrong kind of feminist.

That's how I read it as someone new to the JCJ/KJK argument.

It's not because a "Because a group on here have decided Sarah and the Brighton feminists (whatever that means) are the wrong kind of feminist."

It because I've had direct experience of working with them and been on the receiving end of their spite and intolerance. I couldn't care less what "kind of feminist" they are. I have formed my opinion from dealing directly with them.

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 17:04

TERFisTHEnewTREND · 13/01/2024 16:53

If I was KJK, I don't think I could ever forget how JCJ etc treated me. I mean, there was a whole issue of The Radical Notion dedicated to slagging KJK off! How pathetic! It's like a middle aged version of Mean Girls.

Thats basically how this whole thread comes across.....

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 17:12

Hepwo · 13/01/2024 17:01

It's not because a "Because a group on here have decided Sarah and the Brighton feminists (whatever that means) are the wrong kind of feminist."

It because I've had direct experience of working with them and been on the receiving end of their spite and intolerance. I couldn't care less what "kind of feminist" they are. I have formed my opinion from dealing directly with them.

Noone knows that from Internet posts, I was using your post as an example of how it comes across, one which doesn't involve me.
As I said, I have direct experience which makes me not a fan of KJK, lots of people on here put that down to me "being a lefty" rather than the fact I just think she's unpleasant.
Demanding apologies and that people remove pages etc is just ridiculous and that kind of internet scrapping between different factions of women probably makes the MRAs very happy.

EasternStandard · 13/01/2024 17:14

What purpose does a page / site attacking KJK serve?

Hepwo · 13/01/2024 17:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 17:25

EasternStandard · 13/01/2024 17:14

What purpose does a page / site attacking KJK serve?

https://brightonsisters.wordpress.com/differences-of-opinion-between-bwlc-and-kellie-jay-keen/

I only read it yesterday. It isn't an "attack" it's a collection of things she's said and done, with evidence.

KJK is in the public eye now for her political campaign so these things will happen. Journalists will do them. TRAs will do them. This page appears to be a summary of why this feminist group don't support her, with evidence.

Calling it a "sin page", demanding its removed etc just amplifies it and brings it to the attention of new readers (like me). Counter productive IMO

Differences of opinion between BWLC and Kellie Jay Keen

We believe the following statements and actions by Kellie Jay Keen are problematic, exclusionary and run counter to the interests of women (and all humans) and to our collective anti-racist, pro-di…

https://brightonsisters.wordpress.com/differences-of-opinion-between-bwlc-and-kellie-jay-keen

EasternStandard · 13/01/2024 17:27

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 17:25

https://brightonsisters.wordpress.com/differences-of-opinion-between-bwlc-and-kellie-jay-keen/

I only read it yesterday. It isn't an "attack" it's a collection of things she's said and done, with evidence.

KJK is in the public eye now for her political campaign so these things will happen. Journalists will do them. TRAs will do them. This page appears to be a summary of why this feminist group don't support her, with evidence.

Calling it a "sin page", demanding its removed etc just amplifies it and brings it to the attention of new readers (like me). Counter productive IMO

Edited

Ridiculous.

Internet squabbling at its worst. Waste of energy too which could be used for positive actions

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 17:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Proving my point again. No need to insult me, I understand perfectly thanks. I'm mainly responding to questions people are asking at this point.

AdamRyan · 13/01/2024 17:28

EasternStandard · 13/01/2024 17:27

Ridiculous.

Internet squabbling at its worst. Waste of energy too which could be used for positive actions

Exactly. I agree which is why I'm surprised at some of the posters on here going on about it so much

EasternStandard · 13/01/2024 17:31

It should be removed. It’s bitterly attacking and counterproductive

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