"Transphobic bullying is rife": 15 y/o trans boy's view of coming out at school

[ButterflyHatched]

A rare and refreshing example of the mainstream media actually publishing a young trans person's own words on the subject of their own existence and how the government's draft guidance is likely to affect the people it directly pertains to.

‘Transphobic bullying is rife’: a 15-year-old trans boy’s view of coming out at school | Transgender | The Guardian

I don't know, but when it comes to the suggested ban on "conversion therapy", it seems like you have people worrying that it will prevent "exploratory therapy", rather than coming out to explicitly say, "converting people in this situation would actually be a good thing".

Obviously that depends on consent with adults.

@Helleofabore

I think I just make an exception for genetic males who never had a penis and grew up thinking they were female. They don't pass because they're trying to pretend to be female but because they only know they're male because of lack of puberty confirmed by modern medicine. It makes no sense to describe such people as trans.

All other males born male belong in male spaces.

I generally don't care whether someone passes or not, if you're born with a penis you're a man. That's it.

I wonder what Schrödinger would have made of it?

You joke, but quantum physics has been used to back up gender identity. Newtonian physics is just sooo rigid.

https://twitter.com/BBC/status/1049359029330477057/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1049359029330477057&currentTweetUser=BBC

Hatch claims to have been seen by GIDS, who are for physically healthy children who believe they have special gender identities, not children with hormone disorders or disorders of sexual development.

Hatch’s story doesn’t make any sense.

Butterfly also claims to have had puberty blockers at GIDS over 20 years ago. Susie Green had to take her child to the US for puberty blockers several years after this as this treatment wasn't available in the UK at that time.

Either Butterfly has a poor memory or Butterfly is making stuff up.

@OldCrone, i don't know which one to plump for. 🤨

Butterfly's back story is not immutable and has, from time to time, altered to support the point that Butterfly is trying to ram home.

Hatch’s story doesn’t make any sense.

Shocked, I tell you, shocked.

nothingcomestonothing · Yesterday 17:52

Do you think any of the women here wouldn't be all over a compromise, if one existed? That we're in this because it's fun to be threatened with rape, have our children doxxed, our employers harassed?

There is a simple, cheap compromise: unisex spaces, but the trans zealots aren't interested in anything other than Total Victory.

No one on this thread has advocated that humans with XY chromosomes should be removed from single sex male facilities.

How can anyone be removed from single sex facilities? Everyone on the planet has just the one sex… use appropriate faculties - or do what women are having to do more and more, cross your legs and hope you can make it home before you wee yourself.

The entitlement is very clear. It is obvious that some male individuals will never respect the needs of female people.

I am sure it has become very clear to readers that laws now need to be changed because social mores will simply never be observed by a small group of male people. And all we will see is post after post telling us that it is unsafe for these males, for whatever reason, to be using the male single sex spaces.

Yet, not once has any male trans person taken the challenge to start the campaign to make the male single sex spaces safer than we are told it is. They simply keep repeating the ‘we are not safe in the male single sex spaces’ narrative and never doing anything to address this.

I think it is very important for all those posters to see these posts and understand that we have been told this for years now. There is no fucking compromise that will be acceptable, it is an uninformed person who declares there is a compromise. Or one who lacks any empathy for the women and girls who need and deserve single sex spaces . Or maybe it is just they couldn’t give a toss about those women and girls. Either way, what is noticeable is that those posters who come and say, there is a compromise but both sides are extreme, NEVER give their solution and then explain in detail how it works.

Because by now we realise there is no compromise. They just want to sound like they are ‘reasonable’ and tolerant. But they are just fucking uninformed or lack critical thinking ability for a myriad of possible reasons .

Yet, not once has any male trans person taken the challenge to start the campaign to make the male single sex spaces safer than we are told it is. They simply keep repeating the ‘we are not safe in the male single sex spaces’ narrative and never doing anything to address this.

There's also no evidence that the male single sex spaces are dangerous to males who identify as trans. It's just a story which has been made up by those males who want to enter women-only spaces.

I was about to post exactly the same thing.
For all of the "we are not safe with the males", I have never seen any evidence only the "we feel" line being brought out.
For all we know it could be that most males refuse to call trans people by their chosen pronouns.

There’s nothing you can do when someone is determined to catastrophise for rhetorical purposes.

It is fascinating how TRAs insist that women must solve the problem of for trans women (as adult males, albeit presenting in ways that they hope will be interpreted as feminine via gender stereotypes) in relation to how dangerous the men’s toilets or changing rooms are for them.

Contrast that with how people respond to posts from mothers who are reluctant to send their 7 year old sons into the men’s changing rooms or toilets on their own. Then the consensus is that it’s simply inappropriate for them to be in the women’s, especially because it makes girls uncomfortable. So they’ll have to find some kind of work around (going swimming with dad/finding a pool with a mixed sex changing village instead etc) because it just isn’t ok to decide that your son should be allowed in the female changing room.

Are transwomen somehow more vulnerable than 7 year olds? TRAs would
like us to think they are. And then to take the step to claim that it is women’s responsibility to solve the problems with the men’s changing rooms.

It’s not.

You missed 'give them a quick rub down poolside and take them home in a hooded towel and get them showered and dressed there.'
If we follow the logic that males who feel at risk in men's toilets should use the women's the women's would be packed with boys, old men, gay men, disabled men, small/slight men, men from ethnic minorities, 'posh' men the list would go on and on.

If we follow the logic that males who feel at risk in men's toilets should use the women's the women's would be packed with boys, old men, gay men, disabled men, small/slight men, men from ethnic minorities, 'posh' men the list would go on and on.

Are all those men really at risk? Don't men just go in there, do what they have to without any interaction with any other men in there, and leave asap?

I can understand that parents of young boys might worry that their sons could be at risk from any paedophiles lurking in there looking for prey, but surely there's no particular risk to any adult men just using men's toilets.

Are trans women at risk? Or do they just feel it? I said men who feel at risk not who are at risk and any of those groups might feel that they could be in danger especially in grotty dimly lit public toilets in less than salubrious areas.
My (young) teen DS won't use the loo at football matches (he has witnessed drug taking and a bit of aggression in the toilet at matches) I'm sure he would if I said it OK pop into the ladies. Instead I always stop somewhere on the way for him to go before match, don't arrive at the ground too early, limit drinks etc.

Think this was probably posted earlier in this long thread. But for those suffering from an overdose of self indulgent, narcissistic rhetoric that attempts to derail the issue of the government finally putting in place safeguarding measures for children in schools, listening to Helen Joyce is the antidote.

This starts of course with the unchallengeable "Only a man can be a transwoman" and is an enjoyable listen to a woman fully versed in science and facts who eloquently dismisses the fanciful & dangerous demands of those determined to destroy the social contract, safeguarding and women's rights:

9

It doesn’t really matter what the absolute risks to boys in the men’s loos/changing rooms are.

The mind boggling thing is that TRAs insist that it’s simply too dangerous for TW to do things we expect little boys to do, and a whole bunch of #bekinders all fall over themselves to agree and make this women’s issue instead.

It is actually pathetic to see a group of adult male humans rhetorically positioned as weaker and more vulnerable than quite small children, and then women to be lectured about how they are nasty oppressors for not just budging up and doing as they’re told.

If parents can manage to take their primary school aged boys swimming (and yes, the options do also include a quick rub with a towel poolside, throw a onesie on, walk through the appropriate changing rooms, meet them in the foyer and get washed/changed at home), why do TW need to use the female changing rooms?

The answer is they don’t. They want to. And their feelings and wants are, apparently, all that matters.

What I don't quite understand is, if butterfly passes flawlessly, and all their friends and relations insist they use female facilities, however much I might disagree, what's butterfly's problem? What's the point of all the posting? And the angst.

Fionne Orlander and Debbie Hayton did start a campaign for third spaces. It got no support at all from any trans lobby groups, Stonewall, vocal TRAs, no one. FO used to frequently post photos in male toilets, and said they had never had any issues, aggression, anything untoward happen in men's single sex spaces, despite being slight with long hair, make up, dresses etc. Fionne said sometimes a man would come in whilst Fionne was hand washing and apologise for being in the wrong place, Fionne would say 'no you're in the right place, this is the men's' and everyone would go about their day.

There is as you say, no evidence at all that transwomen are not safe in male spaces. And third spaces could have happened, if Stonewall and all the TRAs in the civil service and all the other captured institutions had wanted it. It didn't, because they didn't and don't want it. They want the women's space, with the women in it, nothing else will do.

And what exactly has Hatch been hiding for 20 plus years if Hatch’s friends and family all know that Hatch is male?