Feminism, rape, and Israel. Content warning.

[ArthurbellaScott]

https://unherd.com/2023/11/metoo-unless-youre-a-jew/

I skipped parts of this article, specifically the first person account.

The rest of it I think is an important read.

It’s a sobering read and makes a very valid and hard-hitting point.

I don’t think Israel should have been allowed to do all it has done on the West Bank and in Gaza historically, nor can much of what it’s doing now be justified, even in the face of such intense and revolting provocation.

BUT the amount of blind support for ‘Palestine’ and the willingness to overlook (or actively dismiss) the barbarity of Hamas has been shocking to see.

Yes. I thought this was an acute observation, from a woman who works for Jewish Women's Aid:

'If you are working for one of these charities, you are used to a victim/perpetrator narrative which is normally true in the domestic violence context, but not when it comes to geopolitics'

I agree @PaterPower . When these threads started after October 7th, it was shocking to see the justification of these atrocities, particularly against women. It was like a collective case of "she was asking for it". I also agree with the fact that Israel's response has been horrific.

And I'm also struck by the absence of intersectional feminist comment on.the subject.

Leaving aside Israel/Palestinian lines, the aggressors are male, and so many of the victims women, and children.

Watching Nina Paley's excellent animation of the history of the region the other week, it was striking how all the characters represented were male.

Appears to be a tendency on the left that perceived victim groups are excused for their crimes.

Note that with Hamas, they openly admit that their own side stole the land, and they think they have a "religious right" to steal other people's land. Their ideology is one of supremacism and colonialism.

They aren't even just claiming to want all of Israel, but this kind of ideology would involve the right to invade e.g. Spain.

Some Islamists do still talk about how it's "allowed" to take sex slaves.

But hey, if they do something bad, it must really be "white supremacy" that has oppressed the little darlings.

Reference:

Nina Paley's animation.

I'm happy(?) to call hamas terrorists. Israel is not innocent and their actions at the moment make me despair for the plight of the civilian people of Gaza caught up in it. But I lay a good chunk of the blame for this at the feet of hamas. They knew, in fact I'd say they counted on this resulting in dead Gazans. But they did it anyway. Perhaps they hope/hoped the backlash from Israel would draw in Iran? Or maybe they're happy with the useful idiots across the world and their demonstrations. It must be obvious to hamas that, without escalation, they cannot win a war against Israel so their only purpose is terror and division.

Before 7th October I'd have said I supported the Palestinians and condemned the actions of Israel; the settler movement, the current land grabs, and so on. I still wish for peace for both sides but I have more sympathy now for the walls and the checkpoints.

I wish hamas had tried to build a better society with all the aid money. Been better than Israel, earned the world's support from being better. Strong and dignified not murderous monsters.

I don't care who was there first, this is the situation now. Although people of European descent in the Americas, Australia, New Zealand and anywhere else, except Europe, calling anyone else a coloniser...?

Excellent points, @IcakethereforeIam .

I read this and was dismayed to see:

"Claire Waxman, London’s first Victims’ Commissioner, wrote to Reem Alsalem, the UN Special Rapporteur on Violence against Women and Girls, to ask why the organisation has stayed silent. In response, Waxman tells me, Alsalem claimed the evidence was “not solid” enough to warrant a statement. An incredulous Waxman points out that November 25 is the UN’s International Day for Elimination of Violence Against Women and Girls: “How can we talk about eliminating violence against women and girls if we are tacitly saying it’s acceptable to rape Jewish ones?”"

And:

"Southall Black Sisters, another charity committed to ending violence against women, did at least mourn the loss of life on both sides, but blamed it on “the Israeli government’s declaration of war on Gaza”."

Sexual violence constitutes a war crime.The Statute of the International Criminal Court includes rape and some other forms of sexual violence in the list of war crimes and in the list of acts that constitute crimes against humanity when committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population.

I am disgusted at modern Feminists. A heartbreaking humanitarian catastrophe has been instigated by acts of violence against women and no one has shown any outrage. Tha actions of Hamas are indefensible and yet Feminists stay silent and demand we must understand the rapists - they have a good excuse.

I completely agree with this article.

I have been utterly appalled at the reaction of the world to Oct 7th and especially to fellow feminists turning their faces from the male sexual violence so blatantly committed by Hamas.

Turning your face from barbarity because of the ethnic group of the people who suffered it is how horrors like the holocaust happen. I can’t believe so many people, so many women, so many feminists, are doing this.

Doesn't even make any sense - Israel declared war after Hamas' attacks.

I don’t understand? The world universally condemned the actions of Hamas on Oct 7th, including the rapes they committed. What is there to be appalled about condemning rape? Which feminists or feminist groups have not condemned Hamas’ rapes?

Did you read the article?

Yes I think the article is rubbish. It is full of misinformation and conflation.

Iran backed Hamas' October 7 atrocities to prevent a US-backed ME peace treaty between key players including the Saudis and Israel that would have disadvantaged Iran.

”It is full of misinformation and conflation”

I think you need to give examples rather than a vague condemnation. It seemed like a good article to me, but I be interested to understand which parts are ‘misinformation’.

What Hamas did was deplorable but sadly women are always targeted for demented reason e.g Israel and Yemeni Jews and sterilisation.

We need to focus on trying to find solutions rather than picking one side and saying look why they did and that was wrong and one side is worse than the other e.g The Palestinian marches are hate marches they say from the river to the se - let’s ignore the right wing Israeli government and the fact that they have a similar phrase. Hamas wants Israel eradicated - let’s ignore just form May 2023 flag day march where Israelis were shouting the death of Arabs.

The attacks were not random or haphazard; they were sadistic, brutal, dehumanising and planned. Men sat around in groups and discussed how to brutalise women.
How that situation came about needs to be investigated.

Which parts are misinformation, please?

Women are always targeted in war and conflict. Which is why organisations whose sole purpose is to understand the trauma inflicted on women through rape and violence, ought to know a damn sight better.

The rapid turning of face away from the Jewish victims. There were parts of the western world where Pro-Palestine rallies took place the day after the October 7th attacks were reported. I can't think of any other ethnic group that could face such deliberate barbarity and the immediate reaction of so many is to focus on another group of people and march for them instead. And to have such disregard, such absolute disregard for the message that so many in the traumatised Jewish community would take from this.

And then there were those who immediately started to deny that rapes had taken place, asking ' where are the videos?' (ffs!), people claiming the footage was fake, all CGI created.

People ripping down posters of hostages.

Those on marches actively refusing to acknowledge what happened to those in Israel saying ' the oppressor can't be oppressed'. Yeah tell that to the mothers tied to their babies and set on fire. Absolutely evil point of view in its dehumanisation.

Even those who can acknowledge that rapes happened seem to take a ' yes gang rape is bad but..' and then blether on about 'understanding' the 'context' of the murdering rapists. Never heard anyone, let alone those thinking they hold feminist views' asking others to understand the perspective of rapists before.

Its been utterly appalling.

Hope that helps you to understand.

Lo siento, here I was reading everyone else’s vague condemnations of no one being outraged and feminists being silent on rape and thought that’s how this thread rolls.

Here is one example, the comment that Red Cross and UN are doing nothing for the hostages is misinformation. They have been mediating all the hostage releases and per the testimony of all released hostages a Red Cross paramedic checked on each hostage every other day and ensured they received medicine or medical care. The UN ensured that hostages ate same food an water as their Hamas captors.

Besides all the Hamas terrorists that were raping and killing their way from house to house are dead. All 1,700 of them were hunted down and killed by IDF by 9th of October.

So that might be one reason why most activists are focused on preventing the deaths of more innocent women and children rather than obsessing about the pathetic excuses of Hamas terrorists that have already met justice. What is the point in condemning dead men? What more can be done to show that their rampage of gang rape and murder was not acceptable? 200 of their bodies were so badly charred, that they were originally mistaken for Israeli victims until forensics were done. It’s clear to the world what they did was so very far from acceptable.

Ah, that did not happen in my corner of the world. There were no rallies in support of Palestine on 8th October.