"TERF Island" - Pondering why we're so "TERFy"

[WitchyWitcherson]

I was pondering this morning, what do you think it is about the UK that makes us so critical of gender ideology in comparison to other English-speaking western cultures?

Is it that Scottish Gov have gone full gender-woo and we're able to see it happening on a smaller scale?
Is it the setup of our medical system that has put hurdles in the way of pharmaceutical orgs pushing medical transition?
Is it a culture of critical thinking, a history of good educational outcomes for girls?
A high number of people who don't follow mainstream religion, or at least aren't really radically religious?
The attrition of traditional gender roles over the last 50 years (although gender woo is reversing this trend)?

I think it's an interesting discussion anyway? Obviously it's incredibly complex!

True, but that was back in January…

I don’t know if I pleased or dismayed that MN has a pink leggings gif?

I know but i feel the urge to post the photo whenever his name is mentioned! 😁

Brave Beets will keep Leggings 2023 alive in the public consciousness.

You are a shero, Beets!

I went to a work shop with JCJ and I think she put it down to a history of organizing and a history of strong class analysis.

Did a Google image search for ‘Isla
Bryson Mumsnet’ and it’s the top hit 🥳

Because although we are like the US in having a largely 2 party system (or at least Conservative and Not-Conservative), there was a Tory government in post when our big watershed (GRA reform and the consultation about it) came in. We've avoided the total party identification that has happened in the US whereby I don't think any Democrat woman could speak up from the perspective of maintaining the legal concept of woman=female, she'd be torn apart as a secret Republican and thereby enabling Trump. I have to say in a political context where the orange seditionist is genuinely a front runner to be President again, I'd be focused on that too.

Also my extremely basic perspective on feminism in the USA (eg Shulamith Firestone, Betty Friedan) has tended to be more about freedom to eliminate any sex-specific issue in your life, and freedom to express gender without being punished for it (Gloria Steinem) rather than class analysis of what female people might need and what stops them getting it.

But i do not allow it to happen . I don't give in to it . I think the likes of Boots do it on purpose and should just be told to fuck off . I have never had any of this nonsense of changing women's terminology when dealing with the NHS my local surgery doesn't do it and neither does my local Hospital . In my work place this CRAP was tried by one member of staff asking what my and others pronouns were and I told them to get stuffed I'm not doing it . I made it quite clear to my employer that I will not tolerate this bullying in my work place and they are more than happy with my and others stance on it . I have asked many people I know most of them have said they don't work with any trans people or even know any. For some people it really doesn't impact our life because we don't let it .

Mumsnet and British press - for all their other faults.

Otherwise DC school behavior, DH workplace - academia- issues, DP hospital issues - would all be individual events.

I'd also thanks to a lack of press coverage be unaware of what Welsh government was actually doing without MN.

For all MN is a bubble responses - I read site family doesn't but I can talk about what I read point to press stories and ask questions of others. The 2017 government survey I read about on here told DH about he told colleges - it rippled out we all saw different problem but knew about it to reply due to MN.

Plus having people high profile people like JKR willing to speak out.

I find it more concerning how far they got without scrutiny by back door even in UK.

I do think US has a media problem though - not sure about other English speaking countries.

I’m not sure what you mean here

there was a Tory government in post when our big watershed (GRA reform and the consultation about it) came in

Labour brought in the GRA, as bad as it is, in 2004

And as regards MN - Justine Roberts holding the line. And it not being taken over as Reddit was by mods like, allegedly, a certain Mstr Challenor.

I truly think a lot is the absolute piss taking nature that exists here, on Twitter posters from the UK were the first I ever saw to say "you're having a fucking laff!" to a 16st brick house of a man lecturing women on womanhood because his inner gender feels meant he knew better.

And a history of fabulous women who really couldn't give a shiny shite!

Yes Labour brought in the GRA. And Harriet Harman appears to have remained susceptible to every pressure group out there, according to her autobiography - she really should get a lot more grief for that.

But I'm talking about timing - that after Obama's policy change made gender transition an income stream for US doctors and surgeons, the whole issue blew up culturally in English speaking circles. And at that time, there was a Tory government here. Which means that it wasn't previously a purely left/right wedge issue here, though it's heading that way now.

It was mumsnet that alerted me to the threat to women’s rights. After reading a few ding dongs involving Posie Parker I realised what the problem is.

Previously I thought it was rather flattering that men were identifiying as women and thought it represented a step forward for feminism. I’d probably still think that without mumsnet.

Joined for the parenting and DIY advice, stayed for the feminism.

This! Plus of course we know how confused people are by the deliberate mangling of language to the extent a third of the public think TW are women who want to be men

It's not a matter of belief. I doubt many people care because it does't affect them.

A tiny number of people identify as trans. An even smaller percentage will try to change their gender. The chances of most people knowing or meeting anyone trans are tiny. It will never affect most people in their everyday lives.

It’s not about trans people, it’s about women’s rights to single sex spaces, sports, refuges, prisons, support groups, changing rooms and to not be erased from conditions that only affect women like menopause or pregnancy

its about 51% of the population no longer having a word to describe them and ONLY them. If you can’t define women, you can’t protect & support them

The other issue is gender indoctrination in schools. Which does impact many more

Plus captured institutions and compelled speech

People who are transgender are a tiny minority it is true, but the idea society has to re order for that tiny percentage is really not the right way to go, and does impact many more, women and children in particular

If we acknowledged humans can’t change sex, and didn’t use the law for a fiction, then yes great - a small proportion of people would have little effect on the vast majority. As it should be

Have you seen the Boots website thread where women are described as people who have a vagina, the word woman has been erased.

that affects more than a tiny minority.

If you polled the public and polled the political elites of the U.K. and other English speaking countries I think the views of public and the views of the political and social elites would be broadly the same everywhere.

But the views of a largely passive public don’t really matter much, change, current events, news etc is always driven by the elites or by a small but active organised minority of the general population.

Organisation requires organisers, or leaders if you will. It’s just chance that the U.K. had a few of those competent organisers in its borders. There are a handful of women in the U.K. that if they weren’t there so called terf island wouldn’t be a thing.

Sarah Pedersen's Politicalisation Of Mumsnet from 2020 lloked at the crucial part MN played in the TERF wars. Having a space to debate and clarify thoughts and arguments was so important.

Also the sheer number of grassroots feminist groups that emerged, unwilling to let our rights be eroded unchallenged. And yes, Dr Nic Williams and the others leading the inital challenges.

'A tiny number of people identify as trans. An even smaller percentage will try to change their gender. The chances of most people knowing or meeting anyone trans are tiny. It will never affect most people in their everyday lives.

But the INFLUENCE of them! Where d'ya reckon 'chest feeders' and 'people who menstruate' comes from?

You might be fine with the erasure of the language surrounding your sex, but I'm not.

Pay a lil bit more attention to the 'women' in the ladies WC queue. 🤔

Console your niece as she loses her hard won place on a sports team because it was given to a boy.

Rejoice at the piss on your jeans from the repurposed 'ladies WCs' floor, while noting the men's' is still for men.

Cheer as your health care is denied because you object to a bloke in a frock performing intimate care on you when you asked for dingle-sex provision.

Then come back to us.

You do you, if you're okay

'Dingle-sexed provision'

...what an apt typo! 😂

Sorry!

The chances of anyone meeting a trans person are not tiny if they work at a school, go to a school or have a child who is at school. The chances are then close to 100%

A third of the girls in my DD’s year 9 identified as trans (10 classes of 30, approx 50/50 boys and girls, so 1/3 of the girls = 50 in a single year!)

At least half have since desisted (they are now year 13).

Proper bonkers stuff.