"TERF Island" - Pondering why we're so "TERFy"

[WitchyWitcherson]

I was pondering this morning, what do you think it is about the UK that makes us so critical of gender ideology in comparison to other English-speaking western cultures?

Is it that Scottish Gov have gone full gender-woo and we're able to see it happening on a smaller scale?
Is it the setup of our medical system that has put hurdles in the way of pharmaceutical orgs pushing medical transition?
Is it a culture of critical thinking, a history of good educational outcomes for girls?
A high number of people who don't follow mainstream religion, or at least aren't really radically religious?
The attrition of traditional gender roles over the last 50 years (although gender woo is reversing this trend)?

I think it's an interesting discussion anyway? Obviously it's incredibly complex!

A cultural tendency towards old fashioned fair play (emphasis on being a good sport rather than being a winner) plus a direct line of contact contact between second wave/lesbian feminists and thousands and thousands of mums (via MN).

Also being a small enough geographical territory that women could meet and speak freely in person during the era of ‘No Debate’.

Probably a mix of our press, our history, and - crucially - the fact we have an upper chamber where no one is worried about being re-elected. There are peers who've said what MPs should have been saying but haven't.

No idea what the equivalent of judicial review is in other countries but that may also play a part?

A tendency to take the piss out of the ridiculous.

Our wonderful history of 'difficult' women saying and doing things that people didn't want them to.

I have wondered before if it's for the same reason that Moseley's black shirts (or communism?) failed to become more popular here at a time in history when that ideology flourished in other countries?

There's definitely something about British people/culture/values that makes them more willing to be awkward and say 'no'.

Maybe it's all the rain? There are enough people who are too wet and cold to put up with nonsense and blatent lies. If gender woo hadn't been an indoor based thing (hours indoors on the computer on tumblr in the early days, for example) it wouldn't have got as far as it has here. 😜

1. Are you sure other countries are so disimilar to the UK? Are there not people in other countries with similar views?

2. Mumsnet is a massive bubble for this issue. I very much doubt gender ideaology would be on the list of top 10 concerns for 90% of the population.

I agree on the culture of "good sport", I think culturally we're less vulnerable to ideological views potentially due to a level of cynicism that certainly the USA seems to lack (as a generalisation!).

There is a certain amount of anti-American sentiment in the UK which could be playing a role - not that I agree with being anti-American - but I do think there's a level of distaste for the narcissistic social media driven side to gender ideology, which I feel the US seems more open to, as well as the awareness of how "Big Pharma" and private clinicians are influencing things in the US.

Yes, if you take the piss out of something it does lose it's power somewhat.

Think of PG Wodehouse and Spode, to extend my earlier musings.

Having mumsnet. How many other female-led, female-dominated discussion platforms with this kind of user level are there? Certainly none in the country where I live.

1. I'm not certain per-se, but we've been given the name "TERF Island", so there's the perception by many that this is true. Of course there are many people in other countries with similar views, but it feels like they are less 'concentrated' and/or vocal.
2. I agree Mumsnet is a massive bubble for the issue, and perhaps many in the UK don't care about gender ideology, but it seems like a higher proportion care than in other English speaking countries.

In a single word... Mumsnet... the UK has a virtual platform that allowed (to a certain extent) critical discussion of gender ideas, and led to RL campaign groups/activism.

Is it that different? Is the case of Amy Hamm that different to Maya Forstater? IMO likely the same outcome at first instance (though I hope I’m wrong)!

@Aaron95 If 90% of people aren't concerned about gender ideology, I think it's because they haven't looked into it enough.

Do they have bigger concerns- yes, many do, but I think if they were aware of the extent of the changes gender ideology is pushing then they would be concerned.

If we boil it down, the thing that has made the big material difference here is Maya and her appeal.

Very true, Mumsnet planted the GC seed for me and becoming a mother to a daughter did the rest. 😁

I think we are still a mostly pragmatic country. There's a strong tradition of live and let live and gender expression is nothing new.
But when asked to swallow the proposition that man/woman are meaningless or interchangeable terms then I don't think that flies.

I think there were people who realised what was happening early on (2010s) and were outspoken about it before everything got shut down or called transphobic.

The Tara Hudson story is what made me think about what people apparently accept to be "a woman", and Maria Miller and the GRA.

I think people are going through the same thought processes now but it's more pressured to not think those things so discussion is suppressed and people are doing more mental gymnastics without thinking about it. So just being aware early doors was a big factor.

Do you mean is the UK any different to other English-speaking western countries? Perhaps not, I don't have any evidence other than our "TERF Island" nickname 😊but due to the nickname, there's certainly a perception by many that we're very TERFy here.

(BTW my use of TERF throughout my post is used tongue-in-cheek, it's my experience that many women, myself included, do not wish to "exclude" trans people in any way, only to use sex as a determining factor when there is a need to define humans e.g. for medical/sport/undressing reasons.)

This and also the consultation on self ID. In other countries it was just brought in on the coattails of other legislation

As PP said - we have a history of critical thinking and ridiculing false logic.

Maybe its linked to an acceptance of non conformity... we are used to non mainstream presentations so this latest iteration with people claiming they are actually something different looks like bollocks.

I remember reading years ago that in countries where homophobia was rife and gender conformity was enforced, transgenderism was accepted as a way to escape that stigma.

This image makes me proud. This was engagement on Twitter after the whole Laurel Hubbard cheating bullshit.

I personally think it's a mix of what you mention in your OP. Women willing to say 'fuck no' and the Scottish Government making absolute fannies of themselves are the main ones imo.

Not sure about anyone else but for me it was having generations of women in my family that know what reality is and can recognise bullshit at a glance and refuse to back down !

We are quite a small island (easy to establish networks) and we have Mumsnet.

That's a really cool graphic! And funny as when I wrote about the cynicism of the UK compared to the USA, I was thinking about how New York is famed for cynicism and sure enough, the East coast is pretty shiny on the map there 😂