Caster Semenya on BBC1 now

[Davros]

I had to turn off

He's a man,a dude,a guy a bloke,male.

Has anyone else noticed that whenever Semenya's wife is interviewed she's very keen to point out that she doesn't identify as a lesbian?

Apparently when they married he wore the traditional male clothes and took on the traditional male roles.

It's almost like she thinks women being attracted to other women is something to be ashamed of, which I personally find very insulting.

I dont know about her but I expect many gay women in SA hide their identity, over thirty countries in Africa still criminalise LGB people. South .Africa doesn’t, but it can apparently be very dangerous to be openly gay in many areas of the country outside main cities. She might not identify as gay but many people who buy into the CS is a woman trope could assume she is.

I have no doubt that life is very hard for people in SA who are same sex attracted. Which is why it's even more disappointing that Semenya just switches between 'girl mode' and 'boy mode', depending on which is more convenient for him at the time.

He could have taken the opportunity to provide role models for women, LGB people and anyone born with a DSD. Instead I think he has chosen to obfuscate and mislead people.

Notice how his identity as a woman is given so much more credibility than his wife's identity as straight. Almost like how we all know the reality and are conditioned to prioritise male people.

Does anyone else find this an unusual wedding pose for two women?

Please can you explain how someone with testes, as he himself has confirmed he has, is not male? What part of sperm producing is female?

And almost like she knows very well that he's not a woman.

What Emma Barnett should have said! Instead of all the fawning.

There are many inconsistencies in the statements that Semenya has made. And through pics such as this, and the topless bathing one.

And that when a pubescent child who was designated female never started menstruating, but developed as if going through male puberty. Did they express concern at this in their biography? And if not? Why not?

The region was known to have a cluster of male people with this DSD from what I have read. I doubt it was unknown by the community. So, I believe there is enough inconsistency to cast doubt on Semenya’s words.

And it does shine significant light on their disparagement of the female athletes they beat.

Semenya's case is complicated by the fact that at birth it was considered that she was female and so has grown up having to deal with the ramifications of this, especially when her features and physicality started to suggest 'male' very strongly. I'm personally prepared to call Semenya 'she' on account of this. This was not a condition of her choosing.

But Semenya went through male puberty and has every sign and indication of being biologically male. Is biologically male ( Her condition is one that is a male DSD) .Furthermore, Semenya makes no pretence of pressenting 'as a woman' at all. She presents as a male, acts in 'masculine' ways, is married to a woman.

Sperm producing legal female who is not trans... hmm ladiees. Really?

Furthermore, Semenya makes no pretence of pressenting 'as a woman' at all. She presents as a male, acts in 'masculine' ways, is married to a woman.

Even if CS “presented” as a woman CS would still be male though. It’s pretty irrelevant how CS presents really.

Not trans because Semenya knows that he is male.

”Female” is just a flag of convenience that opens the door to success and cash.

I'm not sure about 'dealing with the ramifications of being female'. In the book she says a lot about how children were expected to help with chores but that this work was strictly divided on gender grounds, with CS only doing DIY/fetch-carry-type stuff and her sisters doing the cooking and cleaning etc.

I too question this more and more. This DSD is apparently not unknown in the part of South Africa. Hence the athletic scouts knew where to go.

It is likely that it was quite understood what the condition was and I have yet to be convinced by Semenya’s stories themselves and other people’s accounts that Semenya was treated as a female. I expect there is some creativity at play here. Yes, it was on the birth certificate but the life described does appear consistent with that. Particularly with sisters in the family being treated differently.

I'm not sure about 'dealing with the ramifications of being female'. In the book she says a lot about how children were expected to help with chores but that this work was strictly divided on gender grounds, with CS only doing DIY/fetch-carry-type stuff and her sisters doing the cooking and cleaning etc.

I picked up on a similar thing in the interview with Emma Barnett - CS has a victory display that is based on hunting. I am fairly sure that CS wouldn’t have got experience of hunting if he was a girl. He also played football, baseball and wanted to do boxing, again, traditionally male sports.

Particularly with sisters in the family being treated differently.

What I don't understand is why he has admitted to that in the book.

It's almost as though despite knowing that saying he's a woman is something to capitalise on, he doesn't really want anyone to actually think it. Because there's no doubt he does come across as overtly sexist.

But hasn't Semenya got a child with his wife?

5ARD is inherited (albeit not directly)

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/#inheritance

which is presumably why it shows up in fairly predictable geographical clusters, the gene mutation is just more prevalent so a male and female person carrying it are more likely to
make a baby together?

Is it possible that CS was considered to be a tom boy (or whatever the equivalent is in CS culture) as a young child and given relative freedom to do as they pleased on that basis? Even in cultures where there are strict divisions there are sometimes allowances made for people who are strongly GNC. Although from what people are saying this is not how CS has expressed CS’s experience in the book (I’ve not read it)

Do any differences due to XY chromosomes show up in young children with this DSD that would have made him seem more boy-like? I know that there is a lack of response to testosterone in utero, hence the altered development, but that response to the type of testosterone released at puberty is normal, hence the normal male puberty. I'm not sure how if affects development in young children - I think CS has said they knew they were different from age 5, though whether this was just that there was a physical difference that could be seen, or whether there is more reaction to testosterone even at this age. If so that might explain why they seemed more tom-boy like, played boys' sports, wore boys' uniform, did boys' chores etc.

http://access.acast.com/rss/6100856531fd81f125b34dac/MTCHVCxl

Prof Tucker does another excellent job of explaining the science in his new podcast