Caster Semenya on BBC1 now

[Davros]

I had to turn off

EB is getting a bit tougher now

Is Caster the father of children? Thought I read that somewhere.

The bbc article keeps going on about hyperandrogenism, and having higher than normal testosterone, without mentioning that none of it is unusual or high or hyper for someone who is actually male! Infuriating that it's written in such a misleading way, because I know that if I hadn't read otherwise which DSD Caster has, I'd be totally taken in by the article and completely believing that people were being unkind to a masculine-looking woman.

Emma B now pushing the argument rather more strongly!

I kept yelling at the tv...lol..not good for blood pressure. Why give airtime to this shit. The gaslighting female presenters too...ffs

I think Caster thought they were getting a sympathetic hearing from EB but the ground has shifted. CS out of their depth.

It was mentioned earlier that CS has testes but doesn't produce sperm, so I think fathering children is unlikely?

CS just pulled out the “train harder”!!!

Science is nonsense.

Wow!! The other athletes are racists! “Tell me which Europeans are affected by the rules?”.

CS - “Why are men dictating what happens in women’s sports?”

CS has a very male discussion style!

Shaorn Davies just got a mention…

I agree, CS does argue in a very male style!

'Women with DSD are just women like any other. They just have their differences.'

That’s because Castor is a bloke. South Africa was gaslit by Castor , & his supporters

I feel sorry for her in a way as she has a DSD ( and it's hard when you don't fit in to one category or another) but sometimes we have genetic things wrong with us or things that develop that rule us out of certain careers and jobs. There are certain jobs you can't do if you are blind, deaf or can't walk; it is not your fault you are deaf, blind or immobile but you still can't do these things and it's a shame that her DSD means she can't compete fairly as a woman but still does not have enough of certain male characteristics to be on an equal footing with other men that have been through male puberty. But unfortunately she can't just decide she is allowed to compete against biological females because she wants to any more than a blind person can become a train driver sometimes our ambitions are limited by things we are not in control of and can not be changed and consequently we have to choose something else we can do. This maybe a bit simplistic

If CS wants a change why not have a full chromosome test and dna test for the kids.

Presents as male, sounds like a male.

The train harder argument -ugh!

Also saying 'why don't we do so much better than women and run times in-line with men - easy to answer you don't have to train as hard as a woman to achieve those times and and you're just actually an average me athlete!

Is Caster the father of children? Thought I read that somewhere.

Yes - it takes a very 'special' kind of 'woman' indeed to be able to father children...

Emma Barnett made the excellent point that the 'train harder' suggestions along with CS suggesting that she was out-run by other 'female' athletes (pointing to the 'fact' that she has no obvious inbuilt advantage) that in one Olympic race that may have been because the top three women were all women with DSDs/elevated testosterone/internal testes.

CS getting quite tetchy and talking over EB - refusing to accept any innate advantage or any unfairness.

I understand she produces no sperm and that the children were conceived via IVF.

The 'you just need to train harder' line just makes me think of this:

Semanya said on the news this morning that they have internal testes. Other online sources also confirm this, perhaps it is a typo on the bbc article https://www.nbcnews.com/health/body-odd/new-clue-gender-bending-mystery-flna1c9926313#

Emma did an excellent interview, she got the full facts out there. The same can’t be said for the one earlier on BBC1.

Aside from all the biological issues, CS is unfortunately not very intelligent, seemingly unable to tell the difference between having an opinion (on transgender issues) and being a spokesperson for transgender athletes.

Off I go to 'just train harder'. FFS

Apologies for being crass but - doesn't Caster have a fanny 'of sorts'? I thought they just have internal testes and can't imagine they would work?

CS getting quite tetchy and talking over EB - refusing to accept any innate advantage or any unfairness.

Yeah. CS just sounded a bit dim, tbh. Avoiding answering a question by talking loudly about something else in a rather patronising way over the voice of your interviewer doesn't look good.

Some of you really really hate difference.

That’s what happens when you are normally fawned over

I thought it was a little unedifying to have a very well educated presenter who talks for a living debating against CS, someone with limited education and runs for a living, in the former's native language.

I say this as someone who very firmly believes that the likes of CS have no place in competitive female sport.

I can’t give a fuck about casters difference in every day life @Prelapsarianhag

what I do care about is someone who is a biological male running against women and taking medals and prize money meant for them