Caster Semenya on BBC1 now

[Davros]

I had to turn off

No. If those you have abused wish to, they will. I leave it up to them because many times I have been told that those posters may wish to leave posts where they are to show the full story.

Just like your continued denial that Semenya is a male athlete, your denial that you have abused posters with your name calling will not change material reality.

@NotBadConsidering please read my posts and this will answer your questions.

Repeat: Female is a biological category. You keep conflating sex with gender. Legally somone can be 'a woman' but they cannot change sex - which is why the equality act needs further clarification. It was written at a different time and for a different set of ciircumstances ( before the legalisation of gay marriage)

Very weak. This undermines your whole argument. If you're going to accuse me of something and I call you out on it, at least have the courage of your convictions. Laughable really.

No. It is not irrelevant that this is a male athlete. Because under the world athletics guidelines this athlete falls under the designation of athletes with 5ARD.

You, personally, can choose to call that athlete female, go for it! What you cannot do is abuse others who don’t choose to. And you cannot frame the statement of material reality as abuse when it is entirely relevant to the discussion.

It is abusive to frame that discussion as ‘abuse’. That you can’t see that also doesn’t make it not material reality.

Your posts haven’t. You’ve said that because Semenya identifies a certain way you are going to respect that. But I’m not asking you to change that. I’m asking if you’re willing to acknowledge the reality of Semenya’s condition even if that means you still respect Semenya’s identity.

Do accept the fact that Semenya had 5 alpha reductase deficiency?

I don’t care what you believe. I am posting this for the sake of those reading along and wondering why things don’t get reported.

@NotBadConsidering please read my posts and they will answer your questions.

No. You haven’t answered. You have been asked directly numerous times. You have not answered.

@Helleofabore and I don't care what you believe. How very public spirited of you to post for the sake of others. Your argument has been massively undermined.

I have. They don’t. I’m asking you a new question.

So you won’t acknowledge this fact? In that case, how do you justify condemning people for things you don’t understand?

I have answered and this is becoming very boring. If you're unable to scroll back and read my posts about biology (sex) versus legal status (gender) then I won't retype it for you.

Rubbish. Where is your respect for the women that Semenya has cheated out of careers, medals and money??

Semenya knew they were male from puberty. He has been up against the IOC and the IAAF for bloody years, whilst knowing that he is male.

I can just about understand your attitude if you weren't aware of any of this. The press and his marketing team have done a bloody good job of misrepresenting all the facts.

But you are aware! You just think that these women should suck it the fuck up. You haven't mentioned the women at all - despite 'loving women'. You don't give a shit. All you care about is respecting the male in the equation.

Do you ever drag your eyes off the man and onto the women concerned? All those women being harmed? Or is it all about respect for the only man?

Where is your respect for all the female athletes who have been cheated??

Do you ever, ever think about them?

Please don't make judgements about what I understand. You know nothing of me, my understanding or education in this.

You seem to want to control how women discuss an issue of great importance to them - on a board dedicated to women's issues. One cannot have a fulsome discussion without honesty or forthrightness. It is unreasonable to try to police a discussion board - especially when you know in advance the basic premise that people are arguing from.

When someone fundamentally disagrees with a position they are not bound by having to use the very frames of reference of that position.

But my question isn’t about either. It’s about the reality of diagnosis. Do you understand what 5 alpha reductase deficiency is?

I am laughing. That a poster who keeps denying the material reality that an international court has used medical evidence that this athlete is a male athlete with a DSD that only male humans can have is telling posters that their arguments are ‘undermined’! Love it!

I'm sorry this is most definitely not a flounce but I have to go to work. I think everything I need to say has already been said over and over again.

actually I think Ladiesssss is doing us a big favour here highlighting the utter absurdity of allowing someone clearly male to use the legal fiction female

Oh please don’t! I am enjoying the discussion! I’m waiting for some answers! Any answer…

Lol. You couldn't have been clearer about what you believe.

I always go back to this whenever any version of 'be kind' is put forward as a reason to partake in lies.

'Our way must be: Never knowingly support lies!'
A Solzhenitsyn.

https://www.solzhenitsyncenter.org/live-not-by-lies

Totally.

What's that phenomenon called where somebody can clearly see the absurdity of their own argument, but because they're already wedded to it, they will never agree with you?

Be careful! This poster reported me for making comparisons to other beliefs that are clearly and factually untrue!

I’ve found this chap’s videos to be useful when it comes to explaining the concept of ‘Sport Sex’ (and how that may not be the same as ‘legal sex’ in the case of DSD athletes who were erroneously assigned the wrong sex at birth, discovered at puberty):

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCzd_MLszn8PYqc5Hq56qtOA