My 15 year old daughter is going to a sleepover tomorrow night....

[Kitkat2023]

....and out of 5 girls, 3 of them dress up as boys. My daughter is NOT one of them, but over the last 2 years, 3 of her friends have started the 'trans' fashion.
My daughter is all over it calling the girls 'they and them or he'.

We are starting to fall out over it because I just can't entertain it when she's calling them all their new names as I find it so ridiculous.

What the hell have they done to our children?

RedToothbrush that explanation has made sense of a past incident to me. Some years ago, a friend (we were both 20-odd) who id'ed as non-binary (and who I thought to also be autistic) insisted to me that her peers at school had never seen her as male or female.

I couldn't understand how she could think it, especially as her descriptions of the bullying sounded to me as if they had targeted her because she was a safe target: a tiny non-conforming girl with limited social skills. I mean, we were friends because we'd both been that child.

Anyway, it makes sense now.

My dd is also autistic and says she is trans. I certainly don't think it's OK. We do not affirm. However, telling her it's "bollocks" or "talking gently" to her about how she can't change sex is really not going to help (although we do discuss the issue constantly, and she is very aware of my views). She has a deep-seated belief she is male, which is undoubted underpinned by her discomfort and feeling of otherness in being autistic, as well as wider societal reasons. It is not a "fad" for her (although I'm sure it is for others). However, there is so little support for parents who are trying to manage confused and mentally unwell teens without affirming - and generally the GC community have not been helpful. Just look at the comments here - the idea that parents of "trans" teens are essentially irresponsible or "indulging" our children. People really seem to believe if you are GC it can't happen to your child - but if you look at groups like the Bayswater Group it is very clear it can. And that telling them to pull themselves together just doesn't cut it.

These children are lost when even parents are too scared to point out evident untruths. It's frightening being a parent - trying to protect them from harm, from social contagion including eating disorders, self harm, claiming to be the opposite sex.
We owe it to them to be the responsible adult & have the difficult conversations. Just because we love them doesn't mean we'll lie & go along with something that harms them. It's not possible to change sex, to starve your way to happiness, to cure anxiety by self harm etc. Nodding along with this is irresponsible. We're not their friends unthinkingly affirming. We parents, adults, their guide. We mustn't be frightened by all the bad faith actors telling us we'll lose our kids if we don't agree with all this.
We know that there are countless bad adults out there grooming kids, not just the paedophiles, county lines adults etc, but any adult or group that tries to undermine the parent child relationship.

Children need their parents to say no - to literally protect them and ensure that they're allowed to grow and mature free from interference by bad faith actors.

Sorry @dadoodoodoo, my comment reads as a response to your post - but it isn't. It was a response to comments upthread suggesting parents will lose their children if they don't affirm
I don't underestimate the lack of support for parents in this - especially with the sheer number of organisations that should be supporting them having been captured..

@MrsOvertonsWindow so what do you suggest when a parent doesn't affirm and it still doesn't all nicely go away? It's a really complicated issue. I really wish it wasn't.

Crossed posts @MrsOvertonsWindow

I know it won't "nicely go away" and completely understand that it's complicated. My rage is directed at all the culpable institutions who have abandoned safeguarding children in favour of gender ideology, not parents struggling to manage all this.

But again - apologies for the unfortunate timing of my post as it does appear to be in response to yours which it wasn't.

We have talked about it all. She doesn't think she is a boy. Just nonbinary.

But frankly what IS non-binary? You can't be "non-binary" biologically or in terns of sex.

You can be gender non-conforming - most people are, actually. And anyone who thinks that a girl or woman having short hair or never wearing dresses or working in IT makes them 'non-binary' just hasn't thought it through, or done the reading. They've just unconsciously acquiesced to gender stereotypes, and internalised misogyny.

I don't blame anyone for this - all girls & women are socially conditioned into oppressive forms of femininity to a greater or lesser extent. But call it what it is, not pretend that you're doing something special, or even "progressive." It's not. It's as regressive as hell.

Back in the much lamented days of second wave Women's Lib, we actually took pride in being female. But we thought it through - we argued that being female didn't mean we had to buy into (or be coerced into) oppressive feminine roles or stereotypes.

We have lost SO MUCH by forgetting that.

My teen had 5 out of 7. It is not uncommon. I know of families where all three female children are trans.

I think the thing is to keep talking and questioning. Affirming only closes the door on that.

You have to encourage them to think for themselves rather than parrot what everyone else is saying.

So asking where they heard x is important.

Especially if autistic.

We aren't there to be our kid's best friend. We are there to be their parent and sometimes that does mean being a big meanie and saying things they don't want to hear. There are fair too many parents who do want to do challenging parenting cos of this idea that they will 'lose their child if they do'. There is a problem with that: no one talks about how you can lose your child if you DO affirm...

@Helleofabore To be 100% committed that you would actually live as the opposite gender / sex (I never know which is correct) and change your name and legal documentation and "grow out of it" then I'd say 5/7 isn't common.

We are talking about young teenagers here. They are not about to change their names legally, some of their parents didn’t even know their new identities. They are ‘living’ their identity in their school life however.

While your definition may work with adults, and perhaps you are right for teens too, it doesn’t help the parents or the other teens in the situation right then and there. Nor does it help teachers and others in knowing how to address them or for dealing with safeguarding issues where a child or parent insists that the child/teen is accommodated according their gender and not given private accommodations etc.

And now 2 years on many of those 5 are persistent in their identities.

In the current loose and ambiguous description of ‘trans’, they fit. Either way, hopefully having almost entire groups declare their trans identities has become more uncommon.