Butches against transpohobia

[Catsanfan]

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

They are all just lesbians!

They aren't though. Lesbian has a meaning. It doesn't apply to males.

So you're saying that the women who want there to be a word for their sexuality shouldn't be allowed to have such a word because some other people don't think it's important?

Many of us find the word "cis" offensive so that's not an appropriate suggestion.

Trans women are not 'males' as far as I am concerned.

But they are biologically male. So they are males. It's just a fact, that no amount of magical thinking has any bearing on. Women need our own language.

Where did I say they couldn't have the word? They can't tell other lesbians what they can and can't call themselves, though. If a lesbian is only attracted to cis women, fine. What is not fine is for her to demand that other lesbians have the same preference.

What induces you to believe that any male person can be a woman just because he says so?

“The word lesbian is taken by us… we will not have it stolen from us. We will not be erased, and we will not have any man with a penis tell us he is a lesbian because he feels he is.”

Kate Harris, co-founder of the LGB Alliance.

Interestingly and it seems like unlike most others I assumed this would be about lesbians supporting trans men, not trans women. They are certainly more likely to be moving in the same circls as trans men than they are trans women.

They can't tell other lesbians what they can and can't call themselves, though.

They can say whatever they like, just like you can. If they want to campaign against the homophobia underlying the belief that males can be lesbians and that exclusively female same sex attraction isn't a thing, they are free to do so. Hence the LGB Alliance exists.

Ah ! I use a definition of male that can be based in external observation ( genes, penis) rather than any stated description of state of mind

So lesbians are the females attracted to females

The state of mind definition of male is problematic for several reasons - firstly we can't know anyone actual internal self image only a self reported term that may on deeper examination bear no relationship to anyone else's use fo the word

Secondly - much medicine depends on knowing which human versions we have

And thirdly- one human version gets metaphorically shafted regularly and we can monitor and reduce that only if we know what we are talking about

If your position is that people who were born without penises who are exclusively sexually attracted to other people born without penises can call themselves lesbians but they can't stop people not in that group from also calling themselves lesbians, you are actually saying they can't have a word for themselves.

If people born with penises who are attracted to people born without penises and people born without penises who are attracted to people born with penises don't feel that words such as "straight", "heterosexual" or "bisexual" apply to them, they need to come up with a new word, not redefine "lesbian", which refers to a group of people they do not belong to.

I assumed this would be about lesbians supporting trans men

As I said, it's quite possible that a "butch lesbian" to a genderist is a straight, masculine presenting biological male.

Not necessarily. I don't want to keep commenting on this because it is such an inflammatory issue, but not everyone is part of the LGB alliance. A lot of queer people are just not as obsessed by dividing by sex assigned at birth as some people on this thread and elsewhere. I am aware of how upset that makes some people, and I'm not here to argue about the rights and wrongs of it. The OP started the thread wanting to know why a lesbian could possibly have such a shirt on, I explained, and a lot of people seemed to not want to accept the explanation.

Ah that's a pretty limited view, I know several lesbians who are perfectly delighted when a cock appears at the underwear stage 😂.

In fact, plenty of lesbians have drawers full of them, in different shapes, sizes and textures, complete with various strap on harnesses 😁

Sorry if that shocks you.

WTAF do you think the word "male" means?

I'll give you a clue. It means the same thing in humans as it does in other animals.

What the heck is going on in FWR these days, especially the first few pages of comments? This pile-on has happened to me, and to quite a few other threads on here, and it’s really off putting.

OP asked a perfectly reasonable question and gets hit with ridiculous whataboutery, comments about inspecting genitals etc. I don’t need to inspect genitals to know there’s a man in front of me.

Its like AIBU but with the gloves off.

Okay? But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about biological female people.

Bollocks! I’m straighter than a very straight thing.

there's no way I’d be sexually interested in a woman ever no matter how much I was on the same wave length/loved their brain/enjoyed their soh etc. I like cock, I’m not interested in vag. If I were a lesbian I’d be interested in vag & not interested in cock because id be same sex attached

TW are male, it’s coded in every cell of their bodies

Okay? But I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about biological female people

That's the problem we have when language is meaningless because a small group of people appropriate the words used to describe a different group. There's no way to be sure what is meant. See how you had to spell it out.

OP asked a perfectly reasonable question and gets hit with ridiculous whataboutery, comments about inspecting genitals etc. I don’t need to inspect genitals to know there’s a man in front of me.

That contingent has always been here though. It’s always interesting to see which threads they descend on. They appear to like an OP who will be easy to bully or manipulate in some way; in this case I think OP’s sincere curiosity made her a chosen target.

'Only 7% of our subscribers are lesbians'

Kate Barker, co-founder of the LGB Alliance.

You're trying to police that other people shouldn't be allowed to police boundaries?

So you're trying to police boundaries yourself then.

Please stop policing boundaries.

This myth that the LGB Alliance is mostly made up of straight people has been debunked so many times.

It's not a myth, she said it in court.

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets/status/1521512107774205954?t=TP0k_7kiUQdRgV9Egilc-w&s=19