Butches against transpohobia

[Catsanfan]

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

If someone identifies as a lesbian, that is what I am going to call them.

So you believe a masculine appearing and presenting heterosexual male is a "butch lesbian" as long as he uses some magic words?

It's all very well for someone who isn't bothered by genital type in sexual relationships to not be bothered in how people describe themselves

But for someone who is - would you consider them transphobic if they refused sexual relations with someone who identifies as lesbian because that person has male genitals ?

I bet people who think lesbians can be straight and women can be male would kick up a fuss if their employer told them monopoly money was their wages.

Most people gay or straight are bothered. It is not transphobic. Attraction cannot be legislated for and nor would it ever work

I can't wait for this 'identifies as' pish to die a death.

I could 'identify' as a small, off-duty Czechoslovakian traffic warden. Doesn't make me one.

I identify as being tired of the florid absurdity of genderists.

Lesbians and Trans people have hung out together since the beginning of time, marginalised groups tend to support each other.

'support each other' =/= 'shag each other'

I can't see anything wrong with this. "Butches for Transphobia" on the other hand.

94% of lesbians, a higher than any other group, have a favourable opinion of transgender people. The rest are a tiny GC minority. So why would ths be a surprise?

Except most people aren't bisexual.

Not surprising given the level of social contagion and opinion shaming.

I'm hoping they make more.

Are these people lesbians or 'lesbians' though?

Could you post the data?

There needs to be a word for people born without penises who are exclusively sexually attracted to other people born without penises though.

What do we call those people if people who were born with penises or are sexually attracted to people with penises decide to identify as lesbians?

As a potential partner? Or even casual shag? Somehow I doubt it.

Because we know that, in practice, it's almost certainly demonising people not for "phobia" but for believing that gender identity shouldn't supercede biological sex.

So it's dishonest and sleazy rhetoric.

@newhere24

"Only in your imagination do people get “presented with a penis”. Most people prioritise what is between people’s ears before they inspect their genitals."

A lot of men don't seem to have that ability.

94% of lesbians, a higher than any other group, have a favourable opinion of transgender people.

They may have a "favourable opinion", but it doesn't mean they consider MTF trans "lesbians" women or part of their dating pool.

https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating

Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences. Bisexual/queer/nonbinary participants (these were all combined into one group) were most open to having a trans partner, but even among them, almost half (48%) did not select either ‘trans man’ or ‘trans woman.’

....

Surprisingly, among the 127 participants open to dating a trans person, almost half selected a trans person of a gender incongruent with their stated sexual orientation. For example, 50% of the trans-inclusive straight women and 28% of the trans-inclusive gay men were willing to date a trans woman, even though one wouldn’t expect either straight women or gay men to be attracted to women. Similarly, 50% of trans-inclusive straight men and 69% of trans-inclusive lesbians said they’d date a trans man, even though both groups are presumably only attracted to women. And 33% of the trans-inclusive bisexual/queer participants said they would only date a trans person of one gender but not the other, even though one may expect this group to be attracted to multiple genders.

I would like to add an r in there somewhere, given recent events.

Surprisingly, among the 127 participants open to dating a trans person, almost half selected a trans person of a gender incongruent with their stated sexual orientation. For example, 50% of the trans-inclusive straight women and 28% of the trans-inclusive gay men were willing to date a trans woman, even though one wouldn’t expect either straight women or gay men to be attracted to women.

Can someone explain why we are supposed to find it surprising that straight women and gay men would consider dating someone with a penis?

This is how the TRA researchers framed it, rather than admit that people just didn't see males as lesbians or females as men:

"However, even among those willing to date trans persons, a pattern of masculine privileging and transfeminine exclusion appeared, such that participants were disproportionately willing to date trans men, but not trans women, even if doing so was counter to their self-identified sexual and gender identity (e.g., a lesbian dating a trans man but not a trans woman)."

I'm honestly not too sure. In my circles it just isn't such an issue as it seems to be online. They are all just lesbians! I suppose 'cis only' lesbians would work. As I say, I don't know anyone who is quite so worked up about this IRL so it's hard for me to say.

The t shirt said ‘against transphobia’ not ‘against people being able to say no to shagging someone’

Then what exactly is your issue with the phrase "Butches against transphobia"? It has nothing to with gender ideology?