Butches against transpohobia

[Catsanfan]

I saw a woman wearing a T shirt saying 'Butches against transphobia' today. It astounds me that some lesbians would think that way. I wonder what she would do if presented with a penis on a date?

I think most lesbians are supportive of people identifying as whatever gender they wish. Butch lesbians present as typically masculine and many lesbians play around with gender in the way they dress etc.

However most recognise that does not change your biological sex. Butch lesbians are still female and recognise that. Being supportive of someone’s right to dress and present how they want is not the same as believing this changes their biology and does not mean we would accept them as sexual partners.

@Bobbotgegrinch

Would you object to a t-shirt that said "Butches against Islamophobia"

Yes, and for exactly the same kind of reason.

"Islamophobia" in practice is expanded to mean just being critical of the ideology. So it's a way to demonise people and try to silence the debate.

@Karwomannghia

Yes…., transmen are female, but they identify as male and many lesbians do not have an issue with this and are clearly against transphobia. According to OP this is wrong?

Thats because the lesbians are seeing them as still female. Because biologically they are. I would date a transman I wouldn’t date a transwoman.

Some men who identify as women seem to see having sex with a lesbian (revoltingly known as 'the cotton ceiling') as a badge of 'passing' as a woman.
Just like going into women-only facilities or taking part in womens' sporting events.

This

I assume @Catsanfan means she doesn't believe there is any such thing as a person whose gender doesn't match their sex. I would agree with that. I assume she doesn't mean she literally doesn't believe trans people exist. If they didn't exist then there would be no issue about which spaces they use or what words they use to describe themselves.

That is so depressing

'Most people' (survey please) 'go by what's between someone's ears/in their heart and not their genitals' (and other ridiculous batshit.)

No. If you're homosexual, you are attracted to one specific physical sex .

You're welcome to be pan or whatever you want, label yourself away and sleep with whoever you want and will have you. But stop the homophobia please. Some of us are gay. Deal with it.

I don't understand why people pearl clutching about the OP are studiously ignoring the fact that the word "transphobia" is used to mean things such as lesbians not wanting to shag people with penises, and people not believing trans women are literally women.

I believe there are a number of gay people that actually find the suggestion that they chose to be gay as unhelpful to gay rights in general. It implies that it’s not just an innate thing. But something they can switch on and off. Nobody, at least on the GC side, is saying that there’s an obsession with genitals, but that you can’t change sex. And being gay is about same sex attraction. If we can’t define sex then we are denying that same sex attraction - being gay or lesbian - exists. I would say that’s homophobia.

Thankyou @MargotBamborough. You are more eloquent than me! Surely most of us on here think that or why are we on here?

@Madwife123 I know that. Everyone knows that. The point is about whether lesbians are wrong to say they’re against transphobia.

Do you think it’s wrong for a lesbian to wear that t-shirt?

You're on fire! Thank you for actually understanding what I mean

Is this the 'Queers for Palestine' thread?

I don't know, maybe ask Nancy Kelley, the former CEO of Stonewall, who recently suggested that lesbians not being willing to consider trans women as potential sexual partners was akin to sexual racism.

If they're calling themselves lesbian when they are actually bi but like the word lesbian, and by 'transphobia' they mean women refusing to provide men with sex if the man says his inner feelings mean he's a woman?

Yes. I think that's 'problematic'. Don't you? Are you into conversion therapy for homosexuals? How about a bit of electric shocking until as that lovely TW said, they 'learn to cope' with providing men with sex?

In case anyone is worried they've done a transphobia, here's a useful list you can check:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/everything-is-transphobic/

TL;DR: yes, you did

It's an interesting, diverse world, isn't it? I know lesbians in my circle who are, or who have previously, dated transwomen.

Good job we have the freedom to date whomever we like.

I suppose in short, do you respect women's right to define their own sexuality and to be homosexual and proud of it?

Or don't you ?

Most transwomen are stereotypically feminine in appearance and for this reason I (a lesbian only attracted to butch women) feel safe that I'd never be 'presented with a penis on a date'. If I were, however, I would be extremely upset! I do agree with you on this OP. But not everyone does.

Well it rather depends what the person wearing it thinks the word "transphobia" means, doesn't it?

If the person wearing it identifies as a lesbian because they are sexually attracted to women, including trans women, and they think it is transphobic for other lesbians not to be sexually attracted to trans women, then the person wearing it is actually a bisexual who believes it's transphobic for lesbians not to also be bisexual.

Bisexuals. The word for people who date both female people and male people is bisexual.

@Karwomannghia It depends on what you call transphobia. To me transphobia is treating someone negatively because of their gender presentation. I am against that.

Transphobia isn’t lesbians not wanting to sleep with biological men. In fact it’s homophobic to suggest this.

So if you are the sort of person that thinks lesbians are transphobic simply for existing than no it makes no sense for her to wear the T-shirt. If you are like most lesbians and support those who want to change their gender while recognising that their biological sex remains the same then there is no reason why she wouldn’t wear it.

Most transwomen are stereotypically feminine in appearance

Some are. Most are very obviously male though, however they dress.

I'm not going to police my friends' stated identities thanks, but if that's how you think people should treat their friends that's up to you I guess.