Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 6

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

ooooh, he signed the open letter as well.

Witness - can't remember what the letter said

JD: I signed the open letter as an individual to show support, inc for my t member of staff

but if the panel thinks people have not been truthful what happens? The witnesses are all under oath and presumably there is a point to that?

I can't see anything happening to them apart from losing credibility with the panel. There's a gap between what the OU Pro-Vice Chancellor (KS?) said about the reasons for the GCRN not being on the main computer service and some text that JP quoted in her witness statement which made it clear this was more than a technical issue.

Sounds as if JD is getting thoroughly poked by BC about it, and it will be interesting to see whether the pro-VC gets away with it while JD finds himself under the bus.

BC - did you read the open letter before you signed it
JD - umm, I presume I did

Damn I have a meeting now

There is a nice little plaque outside TBL's office in CERN, which more or less says "this is where we invented the web".

I don't see JD's name on the sign; maybe he was one of the interns organising the coffee rounds.

It was because the trans member worked in the KMI dept and therefore must be a transphobe.

That seems odd. Why wouldn't they feel sorry for this person as a trans person in a hostile environment? Like Downes?

Transnesia strikes again

It a frighteningly ethics-free zone, considering his supposed area of expertise is AI

And the concern in AI about embedded algorithmic inequalities and the importance of surfacing them and understanding how they arise from implicit assumptions that arise in databases because of the perspectives of those who designed the data collection or identified the data.

Bingo - I signed the letter out of support to my staff, I can't remember whether I read it or not.

Also - this is a topic with at least two sides with emotional arguments and we were trying to get out of the way.

JD if you look ate outcome, they were in a better place.

Yes but no thanks to you!

I don't think this 'I'm just thinking about my member of staff' has quite the effect he hopes. Would it be ok to sign an anti-semitic letter deplatforming Jewish studies because you had a member of staff who felt threatened by Jewish studies?

Spiked!

BC finished with JD

I'm guessing that because the T member of staff worked in the KMI dept, and if they didn't swiftly denounce/disassociate from the GCRN, the T member of staff would be seen as supporting the GCRN.

I know. 🙄

Your "trans member of staff" does not trump every woman.

Break until 11.20am

Didn't take it as misleading. Just a cliffhanger - which way will he jump?

(Im)plausible deniability would mean admitting to not knowing something about computers! A true dilemma for a pompous windbag.

Justin ignoring the judge again, who is telling him to let us out of the room.

I'm reminded of Lisa Nandy and how we should all be convinced that an anonymous trans person in her constituency was more important than women's rights.

Where has Justin gone?

I can only guess what a whiny, self absorbed pain in the arse the T member of staff was being. No wonder JD wanted to keep them quiet.

Yes which is why it is important to discuss this academically. The witness on the stand has a mother who will at some point had to compromise her career by being a mother. If she had one. Cos biology and reality. And if it was in science, it was likely she was surrounded by men. And men-think.

The Violet Elizabeth Bott approach of screaming and screaming until I'm sick - does appear to be very effective in the OU environs.