Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 6

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R
OU Departments & Networks:
HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
KS - Kevin Shakesheff. PVC for Research and Innovation
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Thread 5 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4919223-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-5

BC: reads - research fellow in KMI writes c people are understanding KMI disapproves of position of the GCRN

JD: our email wasn't to be disapproving but neutral and responding to complaints.

I can't really bear too, to be honest!!

I'm reading people try to précis this on a page, having watched it on a blurry screen and trying to keep up with it and he's still coming across as a monumental wanker.

One for the bingo card - 'my characterisation'

Not special enough, as she is guilty of wrongthink.

How can he say the statement was neutral?

Oh and relying on being in the middle of a storm and had to deal with it as an excuse. Well poor fucking baby isn't dealing with things your well-paid job?

why did they need a professor to oversee a spot of webhosting?

It's an academic thing. Individual computing departments may run their own networks for research or teaching in addition to central services. And if individual professors get resources (e.g. funding for a server or small network) from a specific research grant they get to say who uses those resources.

JD waffles about url and web address

So, to summarise, it just takes an autistic prospective trans to join a department to have "adult human females and kids" thrown under the GI bus.

"If the real women could just shut up and go somewhere else.... (but don't even think about doing anything exclusively amongst yourselves because that would be hateful and bigoted)...."

Latest conspiracy theory.
I think part of the witness briefing must have been to have as much trouble and to take as much time as possible just turning pp. In fact, an awful lot of them have made a real point - even as they sit down to start with - of how difficult it is dealing with the folders (which the OU made paper in the first place).

I think it's more a sign of nerves than conspiracy

Back to shaking my head until 5pm, rest, and continue shaking my head till sleep.

BC: concentrate on my qs. No reasons, but actions.

BC: you were moving them off your server even though you could change the url without doing that and thenb they would look okay to rest of world (ie not showing KMI)

JD: I moved them cos of complaints. Somebody might still ask and I wanted to be able to say they are not on KMI server

Prof Earle told JD it would be discrimination as did Shapshifter.

It seemed to be difficult and I didn't want anyone to shout at me, and it was easier to remove the web hosting and pretend it didn't happen. Big bonus was my team stopped annoying me about this.

That's a summary of this witness

Then they aren't very good at it - lots of turning pages (with or without accompanying sighs), then back, then forward again to the correct page.

BC asked witness whether they could just change the URL which would then not show up as being on the KMi server, even though it was. Witness agreed they could have done that, but someone may have ASKED whether GCRN was still on the server, so he had to move them to dissociate themselves completely.

Does he hear himself, or is it just me? Did he just lay bare that yes, they treated GCRN completely differently?

JD I was impatient, wanted to get GCN off my servers cos member of staff.

JD: I was impatient cos of my suffering t staff member

BC: you were threatening to remove them without a new home

JD: I never intended to follow up on that

As ever, it's as if some people don't understand who is advocating the sterilisation of very young people and upwards throughout the age range.

Ditto, the drive to convince young gay, lesbian, or bisexual people that they must be under the trans umbrella in some way rather than aware of their sexual orientation.

Classic DARVO

So after being told twice that it would be discrimination, he went ahead and removed the GCN.

Yes so true! This makes it clear that HBC’s view was that being gender critical was a pariah position. And the number of emails, Twitter posts, union motions etc they all sent shows they weren’t generally afraid to make their position known. It’s nonsense.

BC: you're tweeting out your public statement knowing it's going to come out in the GCRN twitter thread

JD cannot, cannot say he doesn't know how t'interweb works. Can he?

FGS - you can tell these men have never done childcare. It's toddler 101 to not give in to tantrums. He KNEW that the GCRN would consider his action discrimination yet did it anyway because of 'please just let the screaming stop' syndrome.

No defence. At least he is being honest.

KMI tweeted "we don't like you" to GCN?