Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

BC finished with CW

And there is it CW agrees they didn't want it to be called the OU gender critical group

<sighs>

BC: you are being disingenuous again. Nothing you've just said is in the letter.

BC: the call to disaffiliate would have left it homeless. That's what you wanted.

CW: goes round the houses c could still do research.

BC: not the point

CW: we didn't want them to be called OU and have access to brand, use of which is covered by some quite draconian rules [he sounded v definite on this bit]

Isn't the union the UCU?I think it must be staff. My old union, it failed to reprsent me also.

Next witness is Kevin Shakesheff who should take half an hour.

Who is the next witness? Kevin Shapeshifter?

Not surprised BC finished then CW had just agreed the point of the letter was to make the research group unable to function as an OU group

😂

It seems the use of "c" means "with" in the context of some of these quotes. In handwriting it's usually got a bar over the top.

Ben's absolutely right about the level of coyness that all the witnesses have deployed about who drafted the open letter.

It reminds me of Dad's Army and don't give them your name Pike.

That 'Um' from CW when asked why he had not included in his witness statement that he had helped with the letter was glorious, as was his request for help from Ben afterwards to which Ben's response was a short 'no'. I was chuckling away.

Who is the next witness in terms of role? @ickky - he doesn't appear to on your list

Yes, Ben's finishing points are masterly, aren't they? I wonder what his preparation looks like? How much are his questions pre-determined, and how much do they depend on what the witness actually says? Is there a flowchart type notation, e.g. with a sign for a loop to go round until you get the witness to say what you want them to say, then stop? At the end of Friday he talked about only doing his detailed cross-examination preparation a day or two in advance - that was part of why the time pressure is so difficult (and doubtless, why it's so problematic to get ill - he probably wasn't able to rest over the weekend :-( )

Mr Shapeshifter!

Do we think JM knew CW wrote/contributed to the letter or is she about to go and scream in the hallway for a minute before trying to fix this?

I know, it has ruined the list. 😁

I have added them on my copy.

Kevin Shakesheff. (KS) PVC for Research and Innovation

I think CW didn't get the memo that the others got about denying all knowledge of letter authorship etc....

https://about.open.ac.uk/governance-ou/executive-team/pro-vice-chancellor-res

This is him.

Thanks ickky- we are all grateful for your lists 👏

Seriously, does no-one have automatic back-ups to the cloud or similar?

DD says it's problematic, scary, that OU people sign letter when we have t /nb in my dept. Embarrassing.

Identifiability bias, and the mis-application of [insert appropriate professional] ethics and empathy, make it difficult for professionals to recognise the need to equal or appropriate weight to the unidentified people who bear the cost of skewed advocacy.

I think their purity is more important to them than the OU and its case.

Yes, indeed. 'denying all knowledge of letter authorship' = lying. Let's just be clear here. They all knew and they're all lying. In court, having sworn they wouldn't.

The Stasi always keeps notes.