Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

don't think Ben was expecting that response.

He was definitely not expecting that response. His style is very calm, cool, forensic. That was genuine astonishment.

I'm not an HR person but if someone puts I a grievance presumably you are expected to read it before deciding on a course of action?

And there may be 10000 staff but presumably she's not the only HR person in the OU?

I think it actually threw him for a few minutes.

I don't think we've heard BC that surprised before - and he had the nonsense of the support dogs etc at Allisons trial

Makes you wonder how many grievances they were dealing with, doesn't it?

I must be a little dim because someone will need to explain to me why the OU chose the person who has never read the grievance as a witness? A witness to how hard it is to read a grievance if you're busy?

Plausible deniability? She no longer works for them I think.

I don’t find it credible that she just wouldn’t bother to read it before a court case on it. This was clearly a tactical decision.

Pope - I wonder what the thinking was behind the choice of all the witnesses? So far they have been, at worst, beneficial to Jo's case. Also, what kind if legal dept have they got that allowed this case to go forward? It beggars belief that the OU thought/think that they can defend the appalling treatment of Jo. Is this another instance where an organisation thinks transphobia is the magic wand?

Maybe the lack of support wombats is what’s letting OU down 🤪🤪🤪

poor Jo - her life is being ruined & CM couldbt be arsed to read the grievance

Witness was obviously expecting the question as she had a ready reply on why she hadn’t read it.

Have we had 'I had a VERY BIG JOB' from this witness yet?

If not, it’s surely incoming in 1, 2, 3….

And there may be 10000 staff but presumably she's not the only HR person in the OU?

And presumably all 10,000 don't all have a grievance in at the sane time.

Although in a place that badly run, maybe they do.

And strategically, CM has to maintain that she didn't read it, otherwise she'd have to admit that she ignored it.

Perhaps the 'late start due to traffic' was CM refusing to get out of her car in the car park, not wanting to have to go through this lot in front of Ben.

I'd be afraid to go in front of BC and admit I'd not even done the basic part of my role

Effectively yes in that she has other people to read it and tell her what’s in there, 10000 people, working parties and all of that.

I can't quite move some quotations from my head when I consider how OU dealt with this by acceding to the emotions of some groups without due reflection of the impact on others.

Orwell: One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes a revolution in order to establish a dictatorship.

GB Shaw: In your dread of dictators you established a state of society in which every ward boss is a dictator, every financier a dictator, every private employer a dictator, all with the livelihood of the workers at their mercy, and no public responsibility.

Churchill: You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home all the more powerful because forbidden terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic.

Ben - 'Kick it into the long grievance grass'. Like it.

😂

“I was following processes.”

would love to point out that as head of HR one of her jobs would be to consider whether the processes were fit for purpose.

I think Ben likes that phrase too. He's used it again. The way this is going I expect it to appear in the judgment. 😁

Also, if a case is heading to a tribunal surely an organisation would do a thorough review of the case just to make sure there is not another way forward?

And we have the usual 'a great deal of time was taken' - always complaining that doing their actual job and looking after staff takes their precious time

CM - balancing rights
Bingo

How can you balance harms if you haven't read the grievance? You can't.