Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 3

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Waffle - in summary, I’m too senior to be involved in the detail and relied on others to tell me the salient points.

CM - waffle waffle

BC I understand that was the normal position, but this wasn't a normal situation.

BC: This wasn't normal - to have a working group set up to deal with a situation. Grievance arose out of a not-normal situation.

BC- this was not a normal situation because you set up a special working group. You don't normally do that.

She didn’t WANT to read it and have to deal with it. Pass the hot potato to somebody else and they can collect all the brickbats.

So in an extraordinary situation, you rely on cliff notes?

Minion blaming may ensue by CM [possible bingo entry]

While this may be upsetting for Jo to hear, it's doing her case no harm at all.

This is really interesting - where I work our HR lead (similar numbers of people to oversee) is all over everything - which is irritating in its own way, but now I think I understand why!

I can just about grasp a department head not reading a grievance report because there are subordinates who deal with it.

Not reading it when you are the HR rep on a working group to deal with the issues is poor.

Not reading it when it is going to court AND you are a witness is just mind blowing.

I don't think Ben was expecting that response.

So in my job, if there is an exceptional incident ect, it is not delegated, it is dealt with by the top managers.

This really is piss poor from The OU.

Grievances are not done for fun. Aside from the situation that causes them, which is difficult enough, they are long, complicated, and often expensive to produce. They have to work on many levels, and help/legal input is often necessary to make sure they do their job and don't make rookie mistakes.

The OU is obviously based on a very old fashioned hierarchical structure where those on high rule from a distance.

I'm still reeling from her admission that she didn't even read the god damn grievance.

Isn't it interesting. This is reminding me of the Mermaids court case where - afair - both Belinda Bell and Susie Green said they had not read the Cass Report.

If you can see the discrimination problem but dare not do your job properly for fear of the personal consequences, passing the Buck is obviously your best option. I didn’t read it, that was my minion..,

I’m sorry to say I’ve encountered far too many of them myself in a near 40 year career in the corporate world. Just for balance, I’ve also dealt with some absolutely lovely HR professionals too so I do know they’re out there. I know one who had to go and educate a law department (in a university!) on employment law because of something that was happening in their department.

This witness is everything I suspected they may be.

Who makes decisions without availing themselves of the salient information and evidence?

People operating on a prejudiced idea that someone is 'bad' or 'wrong', by virtue of who they are. That's who.

They said they read some of it, which we know means they read fuck all.

OMG 😱 she didn’t read it - & it sounds like even knowing there was a court case, she still didn’t read it!!

I'll add a caveat - if it wasn't malicious/prejudiced, there is the possibility it was sheer stupidity and incompetence.

Exactly why wouldn't you ensure you read it in advance of the case. Not covering herself in glory here

I must be a little dim because someone will need to explain to me why the OU chose the person who has never read the grievance as a witness? A witness to how hard it is to read a grievance if you're busy?

Yes!

@popebishop Don't think you're the one being dim.

One 'I can't remember' for the bingo card