Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

😂😂😂I fucking hope not.

Lark - 😂😂😂😂😂

IF's bundle "totally illegible".

I also met with admin staff for eg, who wouldn't have understood about ac freedom - they were concerned with impact on their offspring, on their working conditions.

Patronising much?

Bundle problems <ducks>

34 in the room and no crashing!

I do miss the totally online version of the tribunals. You could see people's expressions.

Pretty sure IF is gay- so I reckon attending in a personal capacity

I also met with admin staff for eg, who wouldn't have understood about ac freedom

I don't work in a university in any capacity, never have, and I understand academic freedom just fine.

The thing is, if you do that and loads more of the OU's witnesses turn out to be as utterly useless for their case as IF, it'd give a misleading impression of how well supported Jo actually was . Perhaps divide them into "OU witnesses - party line" and "Ou witnesses - counterproductive" ?

Maybe just emoji's next to their names = smiley and frowns.

This is why EF was such a good witness to Jo, clearly GI but respected right to have GC views and how to debate without impacting friendship.

By admin staff does he mean HR? Is he saying the OU's HR staff don't understand what academic freedom is?

35 in the room, is she gonna blow?

Yes
👍
😬
😡

Think we need the good old side eye as well.

Ickky maybe have an OU "crucified" subheading.

I can't read that Times profile of Ben from last year, but I am trying to decide whether he would be a delight or a nightmare to have (had) as a sibling.

The amount of planning that must go into his cross examinations must be extraordinary.

By admin staff does he mean HR?

I imagine HR, Comms, secretarial staff could all be involved. And he mentioned about people's "offspring" in the quote from @Mmmnotsure upthread so I guess anyone in the staff could have come with their "concerns".

@Madcats Yes you can see why he is expensive, worth every penny though.

Apologies meant to quote you @AutumnCrow

Perfectly put and this is why one of the areas where women are really still not equal - i.e. the motherhood pay/career gap - is a shame. If there were more people in IF's position who'd had to wrangle toddlers and small children, there would have been less capitulation to the tantrums and an understanding that once you start to capitulate, even in small ways, it's a slippery slope (of course, may examples of this in history also - but we seem to have forgotten that recently as evidenced with the Canadian parliament).

I have just dealt with a burgeoning small child tantrum. I did not just capitulate for a quiet life.

Chuckles from all, including judge, on why BC should be able to remember date of Forstater judgment. 😂

Just had a reference to Forstater and “I should remember that date” and the judge drily noting that she’s sure he’s done other cases since.

@pronounsbundlebundle of course, may examples of this in history also - but we seem to have forgotten that recently as evidenced with the Canadian parliament

Do you mean the standing ovation and clapping of the Nazi SS fella?

BC: checking your understanding of Forstater and Reindorf - that GC views fall under protection of Equality Act. To hold and voice these views. You did understand that having GC beliefs is a PC under the Act? You write that these rulings indicated freedom to voice beliefs - this is academic freedom to voice even if others take offence. Do you understand that it's also the freedom not to be harassed or suffer detriment?

IF: Yes.