Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

IF didn't listen to the whole Savage minds podcast, just the contentious bits.

IF felt he might be a difficult position because he was wearing two hats.

So two Very Important Jobs then.

Love it 🤣

IF attended a Pride Parade and got it in the neck from a number of students and had to carefully explain the OU's responsibilities.

I’m seeing a theme from IF on work ethic

So when the prof was on the pride match he finally got it. 👏

Yes, I'd imagine LOUD AND CLEAR.

The pressure was coming from the trans side - yes indeed.

Was attending a pride event a work thing or a personal thing? I think I missed this

On the next thread I am going to list IF as a witness for Jo's side. 😀

Not sure, he didn't say.

So someone's told him which bits he needs to listen to?
And Too Important to listen to the whole thing, despite his position and the fact that he is appearing as a witness? Arrogant man.

I think Ben Cooper is worth every penny of his fee.

It's usually an obligation for points for Stonewall's WEI.

Yes the trans side find it incomprehensible that any other point of view exists. And if they have to acknowledge this, then their existence is erased.

People not understanding what academic freedom means and why it's important is an educational matter for the university, surely.

This is from TT commentary

IF: policy on academic freedom and was becoming clear, not just gender affirmative colleagues, other instances eg. Sunday Times letter about SW, I was attending a Pride parade march next day and I truly got it in the ear from no. Of students on parade. Had to explain FOS

He had two hats - dean and head (?) of EDIA?

I cackled very loudly when I got to that bit, thinking exactly the same thing.

It would be interesting to know if he attended Pride events as part of his university role. That seems out of step with the too busy/six of one-half a dozen of the other narrative.

*EDI

IF: As executive Dean FoS is regulatory requirement. I have to uphold it.

IF: Problems not just GI colleagues. When Sunday Times letter came out c SW I was attending a Pride parade march the next day and got it in the ear and had to explain to those students on the parade that this was an academic using her academic freedom and I started on my journey of realising this was getting v difficult. When I had to meet with representatives of trans network my rights and responsibilities as executive dean trumped their concerns.

BC: That's helpful. Pressure to take position contrary to academic freedom were not on GC side.

IF: No

BC: Pressure all coming from GI side.

IF: Yes, with nuance that some on that side taking the view their ac freedom being impinged with expressions denying their existence.

IF: (re a meeting) They didn't all understand what ac freedom was or its implications. I also met with admin staff for eg, who wouldn't have understood about ac freedom - they were concerned with impact on their offspring, on their working conditions.

See also, that's helpful.

If I work for a university in a non academic role there are fundamental issues I need to understand about what a university does, just as if I work for a local authority I need to understand appropriate behaviour and what public money can and can't be spent on.

Who did he walk with? He wasn't one of Cruella's pups on a leash was he?
<me being hopeful>