Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

[ickky]

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

They post a link in the Chat function of the tribunal.

OK, but I can't see it in the chat today? Is this from yesterday?

Scrub that, I see it is in the chat now.

Here, morning gardeners.

Yes I've still got it up from yesterday. Blackstone have just posted the proper link

Here's AB if people want to see them in action, along with Jacob Breslow, former mermaids paedo apologiser.

My god...and i thought my industry was incestuous!

Is the OU really the only university with a gender critical network? That is shocking.

Maybe it isn't, but they all keep theirs hush-hush?

Prof Fribbance's speaking style leans towards muttering which gives the impression of a reluctant teenager not wanting to be there. Judge having difficulty hearing him. He's said so far that only a few people care about this issue, most people are in the middle and are neutral on the topic. I get the impression of a line manager pulled into an argument that he'd rather not have anything to do with, but he also does appear to want to be fair.

Why don't the witnesses have a laptop to access the electronic bundle? It would be much easier than juggling the massive folders.

Is this because Jo's team produced an electronic bundle which is what she was questioned on (with laptop), and OU's team produced a paper bundle which is what the OU witnesses are being questioned on?

Maybe

MyLady - yes, he seems a decent old duffer who is bemused by all this. In his world everyone is nice and collegiate. After all Jo should have been 'more resilient' as he stated yesterday. This displays a total lack of understanding of the vitriol of this debate, and also how the power inbalance that exists for female academics.

I think it is a simple matter. You can have academic freedom without attacking the person talking, you can attack or discuss their ideas or propositions. Just shutting them down is appalling.

I'm finding it very difficult to stay engaged, he just has one of those voices.

From the witness statement he was very aware of the competing sides and walking a fine line between the two. He was a believer in academic freedom and pushed back against the view that anything GC should come with a OU note stating their position on trans rights.

Re the bundle shuffle - why can't extracts be photocopied for the witnesses and referenced accordingly?

decent old duffer who is bemused by all this

Did IF mention whether he'd ever experienced 360 (?) signing a letter of protest that criticises him? Whether he'd ever had an invitation to speak rescinded on grounds of misrepresentation and because a university couldn't guarantee his safety?

Thank you to those watching who are updating us.

I'm amazed how these academics are such poor communicators. It makes me feel a lot more confident in my own abilities seeing these supposedly eminent people not being able to follow questions or answer them clearly. They're worse than politicians.

Exactly

Just a shout out to Ben - he really is worth every penny.

Meanwhile, it seems like the Uni hierarchy a) simply didn't see what a toxic mess this was and thought it was business as usual or b) didn't want to touch this with a barge pole.

The prof is now saying it was up to individual managers to navigate this, instead of accepting that this needed a meta narrative from the senior management team.

I love listening to the trap Ben is setting.

@chilling19 I work in a university and that is always the policy - push all difficult decision and conversations on to individual managers and don't provide guidance or support

So no leadership from the senior management on how to go forward collectively?

Yes, me too. The head in the sand mode rules, until it all blows up, then it is a scramble to regain their footing. This is why I think this case is really important, and I hope that all uni legal departments are watching this case like a hawk.