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Original poster

Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 2

996 replies

ickky · 06/10/2023 15:32

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

CW - Chris Williams, Senior Lecturer History
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SE - Sarah Earle, Prof of Medical Sociology, Director HWSRA 2016-22
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far https://tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Thread 1
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
Original poster
ickky · 09/10/2023 11:38

Oh dear god, PB has no idea does she.

Assuming that ALL LBGT+ are one homogenous group and also assuming that Jo had no clue what she was talking about so must be a bigot.

OP posts:
CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 11:38

This witness seems confused about what transman meant. Or thought people/JP didn't know. BC pointed out JP is an expert in the field. Witness is very unclear .

Melissamelisante · 09/10/2023 11:42

Love a bit of Ben in the morning.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 09/10/2023 11:44

God, the cringe is real isn't it?

Original poster
ickky · 09/10/2023 11:44

Just reading PB's witness statement, they are non binary and have they/them pronouns.

In the same department as Deborah Drake, who I believe is also non binary and has they/them pronouns. What are the chances.

Seeing as they identify as trans, they seem very confused about all things trans and gender.

OP posts:
CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 11:46

BC is being crystal clear. The witness is not. The judge has just intervened.

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 11:47

Dr Boukli seems to have difficulty answering the questions being asked. Dr Boukli also refers to Jo as "the claimant" all the time, never using her name. That feels odd.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 09/10/2023 11:48

ickky · 09/10/2023 11:44

Just reading PB's witness statement, they are non binary and have they/them pronouns.

In the same department as Deborah Drake, who I believe is also non binary and has they/them pronouns. What are the chances.

Seeing as they identify as trans, they seem very confused about all things trans and gender.

My, my, what are the chances?? 🙄

It's almost as though it's simply a load of old arse, and people are trying to be fashionable/cool/stay relevant.

Thank god we have Ben to cut through the bullshit.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 09/10/2023 11:49

MyLadyDisdainlsYetLiving · 09/10/2023 11:47

Dr Boukli seems to have difficulty answering the questions being asked. Dr Boukli also refers to Jo as "the claimant" all the time, never using her name. That feels odd.

How old is she, would you say?

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 11:50

BC making sure Dr Boukli closes all the files in front of her before opening a new one. Dr B is easily confused by too many things.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2023 11:50

Anyone curious can probably look all these people up online.

Ameanstreakamilewide · 09/10/2023 11:51

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 11:50

BC making sure Dr Boukli closes all the files in front of her before opening a new one. Dr B is easily confused by too many things.

How do these people manage to get PhDs??

Melissamelisante · 09/10/2023 11:51

I have to go out in ten minutes. But this is soooo gripping! Ben's rapier wit against this knob.

Melissamelisante · 09/10/2023 11:52

Witness now claiming complete amnesia and wasn't there Guv, honest.

pronounsbundlebundle · 09/10/2023 11:53

JFC, please tell me this person isn't paid to be an academic and teach undergraduates, what absolute self serving waffling bollocks. (note to self never to pay OU for anything nor give any credence to any research coming from there if person is).

Person says person would self-describe as JP's 'friend'. Well, with friends like these..... just goes to show - yet again - that self-ID is something used by mendacious people who do not care the harm they cause to others.

LarkLane · 09/10/2023 11:54

How do these people manage to get PhDs?
Then they go on to produce so called educated young people, devoid of the ability to think critically, as we saw at the Albert Dock yesterday.

CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 11:54

Careful now. Two bundles open at the same time...

Ameanstreakamilewide · 09/10/2023 11:54

LarkLane · 09/10/2023 11:54

How do these people manage to get PhDs?
Then they go on to produce so called educated young people, devoid of the ability to think critically, as we saw at the Albert Dock yesterday.

Indeed.

Original poster
ickky · 09/10/2023 11:55

Just reading their witness statement.

They have a gender identity belief and believe everyone has a gender which may be different to their sex when they were born.

They also believe that TMAM and TWAW and they believe that this belief is a protected belief under the equality act.

How do these people get jobs? It's baffling to me.

OP posts:
CriticalCondition · 09/10/2023 11:55

And yes, the witness has confused themself. Judge intervenes.

LipbalmOrKnickers · 09/10/2023 11:56

The witness statement is absolutely boggling.

LarkLane · 09/10/2023 11:57

I so wish I could hear this first hand, but really appreciate the rest of you keeping us updated.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/10/2023 11:57

They also believe that TMAM and TWAW and they believe that this belief is a protected belief under the equality act.

I imagine it is, in exactly the same way that being a gender critical feminist is. Although it hasn't been tested.

GCITC · 09/10/2023 11:58

Witness has assumed Jo's gender twice now. They really aren't good at following their own rules.

pronounsbundlebundle · 09/10/2023 11:58

We need a BC translator:

'we can maybe explore that through the documents' = 'I have evidence to back up my position, you do not'.

What a pile of absolute self-contradicting bollocks. Love how person has just said they wanted to be 'fair' (but not to biological women, eh?!). Person is not coming across well at all.