Rishi Sunak - "a man is a man, a woman is a woman"

[Ellos]

..and how we shouldn't be bullied into believing somebody can be any sex that they want.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJcxUehh/

AIBU to want to give him a round of applause?

I know, it's convenient timing and obviously a strategy move but how good is it to hear that straight from the horses mouth when the country has spent the past god knows how long bowing down to the loud and often disturbed minority.

I still can't stand the Tories and won't be voting for them but cheers for acknowledging the insanity, Rishi.

What is important is that not one person on earth except I believe a case of mosaicism, has deviated from having either a body formed around the production of large gametes whether that production happens or not, or small gametes.

Not one person has a body where both can be produced.

Do you know any one with LOCAH or Klinefelter’s ? I do and neither individuals consider their bodies to fit binary sex classifications. Both have experienced intense bullying, othering, victimisation throughout their lives because of their visible gender/ sex ambiguity and both self define as both non binary and intersex.

As I said these things are contested, and ambiguous. But what we can all agree on is the fact that millions of people with sex variations exist across the world and continue to be born everyday.

We agreed many pages ago when first discussing DSDs. I've not claimed anywhere on this thread that such disorders don't exist. I disagree with you using them to bolster identity arguments.

All of your posts directed at me have been incoherent and none have had any basis in reality.

@Tandora, 'disorders of sexual development' has no judgemental overtones to anyone in the medical world, though I can see it might to people who demand that everyone tippy toe around them on eggshells, lest they get upset.

It means a disorder on a cellular level. It should in no way be taken as judgemental or stigmatising about an affected individual.

Tandora I'll ask again (for what now feels like the umpteenth time but I can't be bothered to go back to check).

Why don't women's (adult human female) boundaries matter to you?

Why won't you address the fact that women have been harmed by trans women in what should be single sex spaces?

Why do you think that in the light of the fact that :

a) women have boundaries; and
b) women have been harmed by the erosion of those boundaries, that

the feelings of trans women (males) on this issue are more significant and should override the feelings of women (females)?

In other words and more simply put why do males matter more?

Are you really actually saying I want to throw all the protection for women and girls?!. Are you for real? My entire career has been about protecting women and girls, so that’s just horseshit.
I have just stated that the question of whether or not sex is indeed binary is still wide open.

• 'How do you tell which people are lying?

This is the key question.

How do we tell which are the safe males and which are the risk?

Transwomen say they don't want to share spaces with males. Neither do we.

So how come they get their wish but we don't?

Your 'engagement' with statistics was to try to say (for some inexplicable reason) that statistics which show the percentage of each of the following populations - men, women, men who identify as women - that are currently incarcerated as sex offenders are 'misleading'. They are figures from the Ministry of Justice. They are up to date, and accurate.

They demonstrate that men who identify as women are not only hundreds of times more likely than women to be convicted and jailed for sex offences, but also significantly more likely to be convicted and jailed for sex offences than men who do not identify as women.

There is ample evidence, both statistical and anecdotal, that men claiming to be women pose a threat to women and girls. There is even more evidence that men, regardless of their gender identity, pose a threat to women and girls. There is no benefit or value whatsoever for women and girls in allowing males into female spaces. There can only be harm.

I wholeheartedly reject the idea that trans women as a group pose a threat to women and girls, this is pure transphobia.

You can 'wholeheartedly reject' whatever you want. Perhaps I 'wholeheartedly reject' the idea that the Earth is (approximately) a sphere. Perhaps I 'wholeheartedly reject' the idea that today is 5th October, 2023. Perhaps I wholeheartedly reject that I am 42 years old. It doesn't make any difference to reality though, does it?

FYI, throwing around the word 'transphobia' in an attempt to shut down women's voices doesn't work anymore.

Lol. I think we both know that just isn't true and frankly a bit rich coming from someone won't accept that men are not women no matter what words they use or how many women they berate.

It's not though. Soz.

That they have been bullied and victimised is not acceptable. They can identify how they wish, however scientifically they are the sex their condition relates to. Their wishes do not change material reality.

This is how the culture war stays ablaze. Nobody has an answer or enough evidence to give an answer or win an argument . And people shout even louder when there’s no evidence. Religion is an example of this…

And I’m perfectly happy and ready to accept your opinion.

Omg I did not!!! This will be the last time I’m responding to you , as your accusations are becoming increasingly insane.

what I said was a “sick fantasy” were your bizarre accusations that I was laughing at infertile women and victims of rape. , and that I was “weeping for sad males”

i have made no comment about your personal experience of sexual assault, I know absolutely nothing about it. You said you brought it up earlier in the thread, as I already mentioned I did not see that post. I have no commented on it once.

As mentioned I shall not be responding to you further.

there is ample evidence to show that males, as a class, present a risk to women.

Logically, it makes sense to exclude males from women's spaces.

If a baby is born with something other than two legs, that baby would be tested to see what has gone wrong in it's development. If you meet someone on the street who is missing a leg, you know that they have had an accident or have a health problem. You know this because we know that humans are meant to have two legs. These people are aided, because human beings are designed to move on two legs, we are bipedal. This is a biological fact.

Another biological fact is that we are a sexually dimporphic species - one category produces sperm, one category gestates and gives birth.

If a woman of child-bearing age cannot fall pregnant, she can go to her doctor and ask them to run tests to find out what is wrong. Why? becuase we know that under normal circumstances a woman should be able to get pregnant, and if she cannot then there is a problem. She could then hopefully be treated.

If a man had a problem producing sperm, he could go to his doctor and ask for tests and treatment. Why? because it is a fact that men should be able to produce sperm. If he cannot, there is something wrong.

If a woman goes to the doctors and asks them to test her to see why she is not producing sperm, will the doctor do it? No. Why? Because women cannot produce sperm. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her.

If I went to the doctors and asked them to investigate why I only have two legs, would they run tests? NO, because we are bipedal.

These biological facts are very relevant, yet they don't determine someone's value or 'validity'. Facts and values are different.

There's plenty of evidence that women are female and zero evidence that men are female.

You're right about gender beliefs being like a religion though. Perhaps it's a process akin to transubstantiation that turns men into women.

Noted. All of it. And another 'insane'. Cheers.

I couldn’t disagree more: language is important : there is a reason why autism spectrum disorder has been renamed autism spectrum condition; and rightly so, many clinicians also support/ endorse this change. this is just one example.

A trans woman (male) raped a woman in a single SEX ward of an NHS hospital.

A trans woman (male) sexually assaulted women in a women's prison.

Those things are horrific, no?

I'm interested in the light of the above how there is no evidence that allowing trans women in single sex spaces harms women, when patently it does?

”I have just stated that the question of whether or not sex is indeed binary is still wide open.”

No. it really isn’t. There are two sex categories based around the formation of producing one or the other gamete. It doesn’t matter to the sex categorisation whatever the body produces that gamete. No body produces both or is formed successfully around producing both. There is no sex continuum or spectrum.

Within each sex there are many different variations. But they are within each sex as categorised by considering which gamete the body was formed around to produce.

There is no shortage of evidence that humans are a sexually dimorphic species, and that you can't change sex. It's not a religious belief. It's fact.

Yes, language is important. It needs to describe the truth.

It's funny how @Tandora, despite devoting so many hours to this thread, managed to miss both your and my accounts of our first-hand experience with sexually threatening men, innit.