Rishi Sunak - "a man is a man, a woman is a woman"

[Ellos]

..and how we shouldn't be bullied into believing somebody can be any sex that they want.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJcxUehh/

AIBU to want to give him a round of applause?

I know, it's convenient timing and obviously a strategy move but how good is it to hear that straight from the horses mouth when the country has spent the past god knows how long bowing down to the loud and often disturbed minority.

I still can't stand the Tories and won't be voting for them but cheers for acknowledging the insanity, Rishi.

👏

I’m at the point where I’d throw the whole ideology out.

It’s a dysphoria. We treat it not try to bend to lies on a societal level. It harms women and children.

I’d love to discuss how possible that is, I’m aware TRA legal challenge is incredibly high plus institutional commitment

Well it's clear that enabling trans women to enter women's spaces harms women

That’s not clear at all. What is clear is that banning trans women from women’s spaces harms trans women (and trans people at large).

I don't see why I should feel sorry for some males and put all women at risk?

Phobia against a group of people encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards that group, such as contempt, prejudice, aversion, hatred, antipathy and may be based on fear.

If you spent some time getting to know some trans people in the real world, their actual lives, lived experiences, day to day realities, it might help. They are not the folk devil. They are a group of marginalised people, who’s bodies and identities are not well understood as they confound widespread social and scientific assumptions/ norms about both gender and sex.

Of course there are some criminal/ abusive / bad apple trans people, as there are with all groups of people, but most trans people are ordinary humans who just want the freedom, dignity and respect to live their authentic lives in the only way that they know how.

I’m genuinely not trying to gaslight. But as a woman who has spent 30 years checking the back of the car, checking who is at the door before opening it, looking to make sure no one has followed me into a cubicle, walking with keys in my hand, I think “safe spaces” are a myth and the idea they’re under threat is a tool to manipulate women into in-fighting and being distracted as our rights in other areas are attacked (equal pay, Mat leave, abortion etc etc)
I also find it appalling that women are being told (whilst people insist that “not all men” are a threat) that we should fear and exclude all trans women, many of whom have walked among us for decades without us knowing, and many of whom are traumatised by male violence in our patriarchal society as we, women, are.

If you spent some time getting to know some trans people in the real world, their actual lives, lived experiences, day to day realities, it might help. They are not the folk devil. They are a group of marginalised people, who’s bodies and identities are not well understood as they confound widespread social and scientific assumptions/ norms about both gender and sex.

I do. I've described one of my experiences above. But you've not bothered to respond to that, just like you haven't acknowledged the many, many rapes, sexual assaults, flashing, and other sexually aggressive and violent male behaviour that has been carried out by trans-identified males on women.

No males should be in women's single-sex spaces. Regardless of what gender they think their soul is.

"...many of whom have walked among us for decades without us knowing.. "

They really haven't. Of course women knew They just didn:t say anything from conditioned politeness or fear.

White people on the whole don't abuse black people. Is it alright to allow Rachel Dolezal to ID as black and join black spaces?

Adults on the whole don't abuse children. Is it alright to allow grown ups to ID as toddlers and join playgroups?

I don't think it is. But many might disagree.

What is clear is that banning trans women from women’s spaces harms trans women (and trans people at large).

Women are not human shields to protect one group of males from another. Look to your own house.

I've also spent 30+ years doing those things.

it's only in the last 5 or so years that I've had 6 ft 5 males with large fake breasts and long hair enter the gym changing room while I'm there and not had any recourse to ask them to leave or to seek help.

it's only in the last 5 or so years that I've had to try to prepare my teenage daughter for how to deal with situations with aggressive and predatory males when she can be arrested if she names them with the right pronouns.

it's only in the last 5 or so years that my friend who runs a women's shelter in the South of England has had to allow trans-identifying males to use this shelter, resulting in a number of abused, vulnerable women leaving the shelter and becoming homeless.

it's only in the last 5 or so years that a woman has been raped by a trans-identifying male in an NHS hospital ward and been told by the police and NHS that she was lying because that male said he was a woman.

it's only in the last 5 or so years that universities have put up posters telling young women that they have to accept males in their single-sex toilets, and that if they complain, they are bigots.

Don't pretend things have not changed. They have.

Well for those talking about non applause for pointing out the obvious, when are Labour going to start doing that?

I've described one of my experiences above. But you've not bothered to respond to that

I’ve not seen this post.

just like you haven't acknowledged the many, many rapes, sexual assaults, flashing, and other sexually aggressive and violent male behaviour that has been carried out by trans-identified males on women

Two questions:

Why do you use the language of “trans-identified males”?

is it your genuine belief that trans women are - as a group - sex offenders?

Women are not human shields to protect one group of males from another. Look to your own house.

So well said.

As for not saying anything until now, women are socialised to be kind and to a point many have been

Now it’s a no. Because we see the impact on women and children

Men will have to try a different avenue that doesn’t involve us.

is it your genuine belief that trans women are - as a group - sex offenders?

I imagine it's her genuine belief that transwomen are - as a group - males.

Which they are.

This is an absolute disgrace. Let's watch hate crime go up even more. Focus on the real issues Rishi.

What a curious thing to say on so many levels.
To clarify, the “harm” I was referring to - caused to trans women by banning them from women’s spaces - isn’t primarily the risk of victimisation by men.
The harm I’m speaking of is the indignity , suffering , oppression etc. caused to trans people when they forced to live in a gender role that feels unnatural/ inauthentic/ alien to them.

Agree with this

Yep.

And also this (see attached image)

Incarcerated sex offenders per 1 million population UK, info from HM Prison Service:

Women. 3 per million

Men. 395 per million.

Men who identify as women. 1916 per million.

So men who don't identify as women are 132 times more likely to be incarcerated sex offenders as women.

Men who DO identify as women are 4.8 times more likely to be incarcerated sex offenders compared to other men, and they are 639 times more likely to be incarcerated sex offenders compared to women.

So no. I don't think that all trans-identifying males are sex offenders. I do think that the objective data, as well as a huge number of individual case reports and my own lived experience as well as that of other women and girls that I know in real life, suggests that we are absolutely right to be scared and to fight this with all we have.

Two questions:

Why do you use the language of “trans-identified males”?

is it your genuine belief that trans women are - as a group - sex offenders?

You can ONLY be a transwoman if you're male. Unless you're saying that I as a biological female can also describe myself as a transwoman if I feel like it?

Transwomen as a group are male. Males commit 98% of sex offences. Therefore they should be subject to the same safeguarding regulations as other males.

On a related note, I'm DBS checked because I have a volunteering commitment with vulnerable adults (physical and learning disabilities). All volunteers have to follow the same safeguarding rules, regardless of how nice and kind we appear. Because statistically those with disabilities are at risk from those of us who have some aspect of power over them. No volunteer has ever whined that they shouldn't have to do a DBS because they're being painted as a potential abuser.

'Feeling inauthentic' because you have to use the correct facilities for your sex doesn't really count for much compared to the realities of women and girls being raped and sexually assaulted, tbqh.

If you understand anything about statistics you will understand that this isn’t a random,
probability sample and therefore in no sense can generalisable conclusions be drawn from this data.

It’s a complete fallacy to look at statistics on incarcerated sex offenders and draw general conclusions about a broader population of trans women (or men) (or women).

Using long words in an attempt to obfuscate reality doesn't work here. I'm a statistician. My post was absolutely clear, and absolutely correct.

They can live in what ever gender role they fancy. What they shouldn't be able to do is force non consenting women and girls to participate in their self perception.

We can't stop men imagining themselves as female but we can say no to them coming into female spaces such as a locker room where women and girls are often unclothed and vulnerable.

Feeling inauthentic' because you have to use the correct facilities for your sex doesn't really count tbqh

You say this because you have no understanding or insight into what the experience of being forced to live in the “wrong” gender role is like. It is similar to being denied the right to express your sexuality. The fact that you trivialise this experience, is in itself, evidence of your ignorance. You have no idea of the level of pain/ suffering. There is a reason why rates of self harm and attempted suicide are so high amongst trans people.

You mention rape, sexual assault against girls. I’ll ask you the same question I asked a pp, is it your genuine belief that trans women/ girls are- as a group- sex offenders?

I’m not obfuscating anything, my post is perfectly clear and written in plain English.

I am also a (quant) social research specialist and if you are a statistician of any merit you know perfectly well that you can’t look at that data and draw any reliable / meaningful conclusions about comparative rates of offending amongst trans women, men and women within the broader population.

To clarify, the “harm” I was referring to - caused to trans women by banning them from women’s spaces - isn’t primarily the risk of victimisation by men.
The harm I’m speaking of is the indignity , suffering , oppression etc. caused to trans people when they forced to live in a gender role that feels unnatural/ inauthentic/ alien to them.

How is this the problem of women and girls to solve?