Rishi Sunak - "a man is a man, a woman is a woman"

[Ellos]

..and how we shouldn't be bullied into believing somebody can be any sex that they want.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJcxUehh/

AIBU to want to give him a round of applause?

I know, it's convenient timing and obviously a strategy move but how good is it to hear that straight from the horses mouth when the country has spent the past god knows how long bowing down to the loud and often disturbed minority.

I still can't stand the Tories and won't be voting for them but cheers for acknowledging the insanity, Rishi.

@LilyMumsnet with respect, a conservative prime minister speaking to a conservative conference saying something the vast majority of the Human race has known since we became self aware, would probably be surprised his statement of this reality counts as a feminist statement or pigeon holing as a feminist issue

Well said.

I've simply said that I don't think the electorate in general will make the issue a priority in making their decision when they vote

I suspect this might be right.

Bloody shame though. All politicians should do better for women. We exist. Unless they are put to task they won't though.

People in my Twitter circle very keen to point out that Sunak is wrong as nobody on the trans rights side is bullying anyone. Meanwhile one guy has been banned for suggesting that GC people should hang themselves.

Unbelievable, the lack of critical thinking, which all comes back to the same unopened minds. Well as a woman, I certainly am more interested in which party is going to respect my gender. I'm less interested in petty point scoring.

I won't be voting Labour while they include men with a GRC in the category of women, and allow them access to women's spaces.

Men with a GRC are still men, and pose the exact same risk to women as any other men.

As you say, nobody should be encouraged to have SRS. Men cannot become women, regardless of what medical treatment or surgeries they have had, and regardless of how unhappy they are about it.

Anyone who thinks that it the insistence on a medical diagnosis to get a GRC is some kind of safeguard is ignorant of what is currently happening in gender clinics in the UK. The process of medical diagnosis is ALREADY by self-ID - the people working in the gender clinics are gender ideologues who believe it is transphobic to question, or in any way not affirm, a self diagnosis of 'gender incongruence'. It takes TWO appointments to get a diagnosis. And does not involve any psychological exploration of your reasons for seeking transition.

Not exactly a major barrier for a man who wants a free pass to all women only spaces for sexual gratification.

I agree he shouldn't be applauded for telling the truth.

But by contrast the Labour Party should be criticised for their continued failure to address the concerns of most of it's electorate. At the moment they feel they can hide behind the fact that no one wants the Nasty Tories in power any more to fail women on this issue.

That's just not good enough.

Deluded! The recent coffee shop incident said it all for me. The aggression women have to put up with is getting worse. Not only do some poor women face domestic violence at home, they face it in public when they are buying a cup of coffee. It's got to stop. We can't be bullied for being women.

Don’t you dare dismiss anyone who agrees with that statement Rishi Sunak made as ‘fools’. You honestly think that most of us don’t see that this statement also serves as a rabble-rousing conference pleaser? Of course it does. Are the Tories possibly holding on to the coat-tails of an issue that they think will win them votes? Of course they are. Does it mean the issue is ‘dismissable’ even though it directly affects fundamental policies/rights of employment, health, education etc… No it isn’t. Do many women feel deeply conflicted because a party they vehemently oppose on so many other issues, seem to be the only ones speaking up on this? (Yeah, yeah we know many of their motivations are as misogynistic as the left-wing men who’s ‘feminist’ credentials seem to only stretch as far as supporting sex-workers)

This is an important issue that extends way beyond the rights of 600,000-ish people wishing to live their lives in a more tolerable way. Anyone who fails to see this, is not paying close enough attention or are choosing to deliberately ignore the issue.

And here we are off the AIBU board. Why?

👏 👏 👏

I'm doubly transphobic. Maybe I should be asking the sheep how they feel inside. I could try milking the bull.

Not exactly a major barrier for a man who wants a free pass to all women only spaces for sexual gratification.

But still a barrier, and more admin than is required, when a man can just walk into the women’s toilets and attack someone without jumping through any of those hoops. Men have always had a free pass so do as they feel to women. They don’t need our permission. So why bother?

What does it mean though?
If starmer said those exact words everyone would be on here going "I don't believe him until he says women is adult human female and nothing else".

Is Sunak proposing to remove the GRC process? They've only just updated it in 2020:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9079/#:~:text=Government%20response%20to%20the%20consultation%202020&text=The%20Government%20does%20not%20intend,declaration%20is%20not%20being%20introduced.

The Government does not intend to change the criteria in the GRA for legal gender recognition, meaning a system based on self-declaration is not being introduced. Elizabeth Truss said: “it is the Government’s view that the balance struck in [the GRA] is correct, in that there are proper checks and balances in the system and also support for people who want to change their legal sex.”
The Minister acknowledged the need to improve the process and experience transgender people have when applying for a GRC, to make it: “kinder and more straightforward.” She said the Government’s proposed changes would address the main concerns transgender people had expressed. The GRC application process is to be moved online and the fee has been reduced from £140 to £5.
Elizabeth Truss said the Government would improve access to healthcare for transgender people, who had reported that waiting lists at NHS gender clinics are too long.

Sunak and Starmer's stated positions are basically identical and if you don't see thar, then yes you are being a bit dim.

Same reason we bother after Jessica and Holly murders when safeguarding in schools wasn't robust enough.
We close up loopholes. We don't shrug and go oh well it happens.

The only way I can see better protection for women is biological sex definition in Eq A which is being pursued

GRC or not it won’t matter as sex will be biologically determined

Except they very rarely did.

If men did go into women's toilets they were challenged. If they didn't leave, in a nightclub someone would go and get a bouncer. In a pub, the staff. In a shopping centre, security

Since the advent of gender ideology, many women are afraid to challenge an obvious male in a toilet. If they call for help or complain, venue and/or security staff are likely to side with the man if he claims another gender identity.

Hear hear

Adam, my only point is that I expect that ALL POLITICIANS OF ALL parties do something to help women.

I have not once said that I think that the Tories deserve my vote on this.

We currently have bad laws. Words are not enough from ANY PARTY. Commitment to a legislative path to protect women from all males in single sex spaces and to protect children from harmful pathways are not, I don't think, too much to ask.

I think the GRC should be repealed. No man is a woman, no man can live as a woman it is offensive to suggest that a man can be what they cannot be.

The way that Rosie Duffield is treated within the LP does concern me. The fact that women's voices asking questions are drowned out by cries of 'bigot' or 'you must be right wing' or god forbid 'you are an evil Tory voter'.

I said before this issue transcends party politics because women are 51% of the population and we are varied. We have different political beliefs, interests, religions, sexualities, the thing that bonds us is our Sex and the fact that because of our sex we are oppressed.

This idea that men have always been free to enter women's spaces and this is nothing new is complete nonsense. It's gaslighting.

You said
"that the truth appears to be beyond the Labour Party."
I'm pointing out that both parties essentially say the same, both have pledged to make GRC easier (amd the Conservatives have implemented the change) both parties have TWAW and GC members, yet you (and many posters on this board) repeatedly act as if only the Conservatives can be telling the truth about their policy.

I find it very very weird. Especially given the current Cabinet contains proven liars.

And also I can straight away see the change in tone in the thread. Only "repeal the GRA, trans women are men" is acceptable here. Anyone else gets hounded out of the board.

Whereas I think for the majority trans women are trans women. Male, not biologically women, but its offensive to call them "men".

Commitment to a legislative path to protect women from all males in single sex spaces and to protect children from harmful pathways are not, I don't think, too much to ask.

Absolutely, Eq A amendment in process. Pretty much the only thing on the table

I think the GRC should be repealed. No man is a woman, no man can live as a woman it is offensive to suggest that a man can be what they cannot be.

Yes the GRA / GRC should be repealed. I have seen both sides on here on whether it can be and how within international laws but I’d be interested in legal takes

Yes I did because it is beyond the Labour Party.

The truth is that no man is a woman, not even one with a GRC. That is a legal fiction that harms women.

I don't hold out any hope that EITHER party has the interests of women at heart. That is what I am saying.

I have said it throughout the thread.

It is not good enough. I expect MORE FROM THE LABOUR PARTY. I'm not going to vote Tory for other reasons but I want Labour to do better on this.

Well it's clear that enabling trans women to enter women's spaces harms women.

The thing that trans women (whether they have a GRC or not) have in common that they don't share with women is that they are male.

I don't see why I should feel sorry for some males and put all women at risk?

I know I've been socialised to put men first but with the rapes in NHS wards and sexual assaults in women prisons and males winning prizes in women's sport my sympathy has waned a bit.

Yes. I agree. And I think the proposal to strengthen sex based protections in those areas is important.

We can do that without repealing the GRC process and insisting trans women are referred to as men in all scenarios.