Page 10 | Rishi Sunak - "a man is a man, a woman is a woman"

Ellos · 2023-10-04T20:44:22+00:00

..and how we shouldn't be bullied into believing somebody can be any sex that they want. [[https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJcxUehh https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJcxUehh/]] AIBU to want to give him a round of applause? I know, it's convenient timing and obviously a strategy move but how good is it to hear that straight from the horses mouth when the country has spent the past god knows how long bowing down to the loud --and often disturbed-- minority. I still can't stand the Tories and won't be voting for them but cheers for acknowledging the insanity, Rishi.

Hersecretserviceyourmaj · 04/10/2023 23:54

Thementalloadisreal · 04/10/2023 23:50

Actually a lot of people on this thread are debating their existence.. “Trans women are men” etc. There is a lot of trans erasure here.

I didn’t say we face the same threats and fears but that we have some shared ones.

We ask men to be feminists, to speak up and help us against male violence, but we are too busy demonising all trans women rather than asking them the same.

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It's not erasing or transphobic. Most women don't care about the existence of trans women. It's unfortunate that the rest of us have to be dragged along into something not of our choosing and which puts women in potential danger.

lifeturnsonadime · 04/10/2023 23:55

Thementalloadisreal · 04/10/2023 23:50

Actually a lot of people on this thread are debating their existence.. “Trans women are men” etc. There is a lot of trans erasure here.

I didn’t say we face the same threats and fears but that we have some shared ones.

We ask men to be feminists, to speak up and help us against male violence, but we are too busy demonising all trans women rather than asking them the same.

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'The truth is transphobic'.

Trans women are male.

I don't give a shit if men are feminists or are not. But allowing trans women into women's single sex spaces is a proven catastrophe for women and you expect us to STFU about it because some trans women are nice?

A WOMAN WAS RAPED BY A TRANS WOMAN IN AN NHS HOSPITAL AND YOU DON'T CARE!

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 04/10/2023 23:56

Thementalloadisreal · 04/10/2023 23:54

They used to say that about gay men too didn’t they 🫤

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No, gay men never pretended to be women or forced their way into female spaces.

Your homophobia though is sadly typical of trans activists. What’s next, you’ll say that if black women are women then so are men?

Tandora · 04/10/2023 23:57

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 04/10/2023 23:54

It’s not erasing anyone to point out that transwomen are men who are pretending to be women.

Up until only four or five years ago this wasn’t a controversial claim.

This assertion now that a man in a dress is actually female isn’t erasure, it’s just a simple statement of fact.

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calling trans women men who are pretending to be women is 100% erasing trans experience. If you don’t understand this it’s because you have never taken the time to listen to or understand a trans person’s lived experience. This is the very definition of trans erasure.

OvaHere · 04/10/2023 23:58

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 04/10/2023 23:56

No, gay men never pretended to be women or forced their way into female spaces.

Your homophobia though is sadly typical of trans activists. What’s next, you’ll say that if black women are women then so are men?

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Getting closer to that clownfish moment. 😁

Thementalloadisreal · 04/10/2023 23:58

lifeturnsonadime · 04/10/2023 23:52

FGS the social contract has changed. Men can now walk into women's single sex spaces if they identify as women. And any man who says he is a woman now is one else transphobia.

A few years ago this didn't and couldn't happen.

The fact that a trans woman in patient raped a woman in patient in an NHS hospital was inconceivable a few years ago as was:

Karen white (trans woman) being given access to sexual assault victims in a women's prison.

etc.

For those in the cheap seats at the back

The fact that some men harm women is not a reason to remove safeguarding it's reason to enhance it.

When we KNOW that some trans women are using this to harm women we don't say 'oh come on in'.

FFS.

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A few years ago this didn't and couldn't happen.

Are you actually joking? You think no woman has been attacked or abused in hospital or a toilet before a few years ago??

Men have always been able to walk into women's spaces, if they chose to.
Identifying as a woman has never been necessary.

bringbacktheladiesloos · 04/10/2023 23:59

Thementalloadisreal · 04/10/2023 23:43

It’s a good job we always take the height and weight of everyone entering a public toilet then isn’t it.

Handily that also means that women can’t beat men up? Interesting because mumsnetters are quite keen to point out that domestic violence can go both ways. Surely not, if a woman is always universally smaller and weaker than a man.

How little you must think of women to give us so little credit.

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Stating that women are physiologically different to men in terms of muscle strength (lets not discuss the thousands of other ways in which men and women are physiologically different) is not 'discrediting women'.

Also, you don't have to be strong to be violent. Women can still be violent. Anyone can commit domestic abuse if they are wired wrong.

What planet are you on.

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 04/10/2023 23:59

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Tandora · 04/10/2023 23:59

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 04/10/2023 23:56

No, gay men never pretended to be women or forced their way into female spaces.

Your homophobia though is sadly typical of trans activists. What’s next, you’ll say that if black women are women then so are men?

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Your homophobia though is sadly typical of trans activists

And your transphobia (routed in actual homophobia and misogyny) is sadly typical of TERFs.

But is this a helpful way to engage in debate? Hardly.

EasternStandard · 05/10/2023 00:00

Tandora · 04/10/2023 23:57

calling trans women men who are pretending to be women is 100% erasing trans experience. If you don’t understand this it’s because you have never taken the time to listen to or understand a trans person’s lived experience. This is the very definition of trans erasure.

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Do you listen to women when they talk about their lived experience?

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:00

This reply has been deleted

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And they were never welcome

says who?

lifeturnsonadime · 05/10/2023 00:02

Thementalloadisreal · 04/10/2023 23:58

A few years ago this didn't and couldn't happen.

Are you actually joking? You think no woman has been attacked or abused in hospital or a toilet before a few years ago??

Men have always been able to walk into women's spaces, if they chose to.
Identifying as a woman has never been necessary.

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You are deliberately missing the point.

No woman -

Was raped by a trans woman in a single sex hospital ward then told by police that could not have happened because there was no man in there.

No woman -

was sexually assaulted by a trans woman in a woman's prison where she should have been safe.

No woman -

Had missed out on sporting scholorships or prizes to trans woman

etc.

The fact that there are bad males does not mean we should give even more bad males opportunities which is what this does.

You just dgaf about women. It's about putting males first. Own it.

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 05/10/2023 00:02

Tandora · 04/10/2023 23:57

calling trans women men who are pretending to be women is 100% erasing trans experience. If you don’t understand this it’s because you have never taken the time to listen to or understand a trans person’s lived experience. This is the very definition of trans erasure.

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Don’t be silly. Whether it’s caused by gender dysphoria or it’s a fetish it’s objectively true to say that transwomen are men pretending to be women.

They are XY males, born with a penis. They are not, by any measure, women.

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:03

EasternStandard · 05/10/2023 00:00

Do you listen to women when they talk about their lived experience?

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I’m interested in the lived experience of women, yes. I also have my own lived experience as a woman.

OvaHere · 05/10/2023 00:03

Tandora · 04/10/2023 23:57

calling trans women men who are pretending to be women is 100% erasing trans experience. If you don’t understand this it’s because you have never taken the time to listen to or understand a trans person’s lived experience. This is the very definition of trans erasure.

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Listening to what men who call themselves women have to say is why I became a massive terf.

Too many to list but a special mention to Andrea Long Chu they of the quote ‘barest essentials’ of femaleness as ‘an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes’.

Also to Grace Lavery and their 'staggering penis'

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:04

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 05/10/2023 00:02

Don’t be silly. Whether it’s caused by gender dysphoria or it’s a fetish it’s objectively true to say that transwomen are men pretending to be women.

They are XY males, born with a penis. They are not, by any measure, women.

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it’s objectively true to say that transwomen are men pretending to be women

No it really isn’t. It’s nothing more than an exercise in semantics.

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 05/10/2023 00:05

Tandora · 04/10/2023 23:59

Your homophobia though is sadly typical of trans activists

And your transphobia (routed in actual homophobia and misogyny) is sadly typical of TERFs.

But is this a helpful way to engage in debate? Hardly.

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It’s no more a debate than it is when I assert that a flat Earth proponent is wrong.

Transwomen are men who have a psychological condition that leads them to claim to be women.

No normal person has any obligation to believe this pretense.

EasternStandard · 05/10/2023 00:05

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:03

I’m interested in the lived experience of women, yes. I also have my own lived experience as a woman.

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Well not all of us want to prioritise men. We prefer sex based rights for us and our dd

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:06

OvaHere · 05/10/2023 00:03

Listening to what men who call themselves women have to say is why I became a massive terf.

Too many to list but a special mention to Andrea Long Chu they of the quote ‘barest essentials’ of femaleness as ‘an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes’.

Also to Grace Lavery and their 'staggering penis'

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Instead of the sensationalist words of a couple of wildly controversial characters, why don’t you go have a conversation in the real world with an ordinary trans person and ask them about their lives.

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 05/10/2023 00:07

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:04

it’s objectively true to say that transwomen are men pretending to be women

No it really isn’t. It’s nothing more than an exercise in semantics.

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Of course it isn’t. Normal people have a coherent description of what a woman is, trans activists have, at best, a meaningless circular one.

Most refuse to even define what they mean by women, or just give what they know is the dishonest circular description.

To prove this, what do you mean by “woman”?

LizzieW1969 · 05/10/2023 00:08

axolotlfloof · 04/10/2023 23:47

90% of males could kill 90% of females with their bare hands.
'Transwomen' are males.
They are not at any more risk than other men.
I would say autistic men, and elderly men are more vulnerable but we don't invite them in the ladies.

What about young boys (aged 8+)? I would say that they were the most vulnerable. And yet, in threads where the question is asked about whether they should be allowed into the ladies’ toilets, the consensus is (rightly) that no, this is a safe place for women and girls.

It surely can’t be suggested that trans women are more vulnerable than young boys?

OvaHere · 05/10/2023 00:08

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:06

Instead of the sensationalist words of a couple of wildly controversial characters, why don’t you go have a conversation in the real world with an ordinary trans person and ask them about their lives.

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No not those trans people. Don't listen to that sort.

😂😂😂

Underminer · 05/10/2023 00:09

What I saw in his speech was the usual “we’re the ones to fix what we think people will vote for us are complaining about”. No word of them being in office for years, creating mess they are the only ones to solve because their are listening now they need the votes, then it is back to carry on bullshit. Same story whatever flavour of party.

lifeturnsonadime · 05/10/2023 00:09

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:06

Instead of the sensationalist words of a couple of wildly controversial characters, why don’t you go have a conversation in the real world with an ordinary trans person and ask them about their lives.

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Interested in this Tandora, I really am.

Do you think your lived experience is more real than that of the rape victim in the NHS hospital who might feel the need to have single sex spaces away from all trans women going forward ?

Do you think your lived experience is more real than Muslim or orthodox jewish women who can't be in same spaces as trans women because of their needs?

Why do you think your wishes trumps their needs to be able to engage fully in society. How do you think the women who now can't swim in Hampstead Heath might feel in their lived experience or don't they count because they don't centre transwomen/ males?

Tandora · 05/10/2023 00:09

KevinTurveyIsMissed · 05/10/2023 00:05

It’s no more a debate than it is when I assert that a flat Earth proponent is wrong.

Transwomen are men who have a psychological condition that leads them to claim to be women.

No normal person has any obligation to believe this pretense.

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who have a psychological condition that leads them to claim to be women

Similar to the invented “psychological condition” that supposedly led people to “believe” they are gay, I suppose ?

Your views are seeping in prejudice and ignorance. This could not be clearer when you distinguish yourself as being “a normal person” in comparison.