How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

Can't we police it by saying to everyone, "If you were born with a penis, use the men's"?

If not, why not?

I think it's a lot to do with the male gaze. They simply can't see past the superficial.

Short skirt, long hair ? Must be a woman. Buzz cut, donkey jacket? Must be a bloke.

Twitter has, quite literally, hundreds and hundreds of pictures of obvious men in wigs and skirts, who genuinely think they look like women.

It still shocks me, to be honest, that they can't see what women see.

Because it’s LITERAL VIOLENCE that will lead to GENOCIDE and make male men FEEL UNSAFE.

How do you think we did it before? 😁

We understood that men didn't come in.

The end.

Shoulder size, hip size, waist, body fat distribution, musculature, gait, foot and hand size, height, skull size, brows, adam's apple, nose size - and many more, seen and analyzed in a microsecond. We know. Even when we're 10 years old.

I think the reason for the 'butch lesbian' bullshit it because they want to pretend that growing hair long, wearing makeup, and putting on a dress and impractical shoes magically makes males look like women. It doesn't.

GodessOfThunder

The government is already saying that new buildings have to have female only loos.

Wherever it's established that men are absolutely not allowed in women's toilets, they will all be staying out, won't they?

I think the reason for the 'butch lesbian' bullshit it because they want to pretend that growing hair long, wearing makeup, and putting on a dress and impractical shoes magically makes males look like women. It doesn't.

Yep.

this is a litigation disaster waiting to happen lol

In what way is it a litigation disaster waiting to happen?

It still shocks me, to be honest, that they can't see what women see.

I've wondered about this. Do these men truly think they look like women? I can't get my head around the idea.

So you’d police bog entrance using nazi-style facial measurement callipers as used to “discern” who was Jewish in ww2. Wow!

Studies have shown that men are much less able to detect another person's sex than women are (because they have less need to). But they know their own sex, so can keep themselves out of women's spaces.

You really are utterly ridiculous @GodessOfThunder.

You know damn well that is not what is being said because that is not what needs to be done, but do carry on with your homophobic and misogynistic bullshit as it is very enlightening.

Why do we need to police anything?

Everyone knows what kind of genitals they were born with. Can't we trust them to simply use the correct toilets?

If we say to trans people, "Sorry, we will provide third spaces for you where possible but from now on you must not use the women's toilets if you were born with a penis", why would that not work?

No you are misunderstanding posts

It's deliberate Eastern, that is the level they operate at.

Oh Lord we’re not still on “but hooow can you tell???” Are we?

Have we finally got to the end of your attempt to pwn the feminists of Mumsnet now you’ve started clown-dancing? What a ridiculous childish post.

This is a photo of a man, a woman, a TW & a butch lesbian if we must use that phrase. It’s bloody obvious who is whom

Hahaha!!

You must have long legs to have jumped that particular shark 🤣🤣🤣

So you’d police bog entrance using nazi-style facial measurement callipers as used to “discern” who was Jewish in ww2. Wow!

No, I'd ask people to use the lavatories and changing rooms appropriate to their sex. And treat the Nazi-approved theory of gendered 'inverts' as sinister and dangerous (particularly to the same-sex attracted and to women).

GodessOfThunder

do you think that when a man puts on a wig and lipstick and wears a dress, he looks like a woman?

Nobody actually thinks this.

What an excellent question, bet they don’t answer.

Or maybe they’ll dig up some filtered-to-fuck screenshots.

Exactly.

It's about trying to force women into a situation where their boundaries are breached no matter what they say or do.

It's utterly repugnant.

What is telling is that Thunder doesn't mind owning that these men will try to access women without their consent, irrespective of what those women want. You won't be able to stop us, because you won't be able to tell, is an admission of abuse.

And Thunder cares less about that, than the goal of potential boundary violation.

Thus proving our point. Over and over.

What about if you had to do genital inspections, what about face calipers, what about butch lesbians.

Lol.

The answer is no.