Trans: the new ideology of the ruling class (article)

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/09/25/trans-the-new-ideology-of-the-ruling-class/

So if trans women are perfectly safe using men's toilets, what's the issue? Why can't they use the men's toilets?

For sure! Gynaecology, childbirth etc.

How strange and awkward that would be!

Also toilets, changing rooms and showers, rape crisis groups, women's shelters, sports.

Sex = highly relevant.
Gender = meh.

Why would it? Can't they just go in, pee, wash their hands and leave?

Likewise!

So are you arguing for the abolition of single sex spaces altogether then? Just mix men and women in together because this will cause no issues for anyone at all?

Yeah, I totally disagree.
I’m gender critical, but we currently live in a world where gender matters a whole lot. People should be able to find their comfort within that.

Single sex spaces aren’t a thing. Except perhaps in a medical setting.

What about women's comfort?

There are a great many women who will self exclude from these spaces if there is a risk of them encountering a stranger's penis.

Does their comfort not matter to you at all?

What are the criteria for deciding whose comfort matters and whose doesn't?

Everyone has a right to self exclude.

Of course they are.

They are currently under threat because a small number of people want to use single sex spaces for the opposite sex and so they are trying to pretend that single gender spaces are a thing.

But gender isn't real.

Gender is in everything we see. I would love it if gender wasn’t real.

If I were to suggest that trans people should do this instead you would accuse me of believing that they shouldn't be allowed to exist in society.

The double standards are sickening.

Well then I have some wonderful news for you.

It isn't.

It's made up bullshit.

No one has a personality which either matches or clashes with any particular type of genitalia.

If people can like it or lump it, then trans people can do this as well as women. They can 'reframe their trauma' and so on as they are so often told.

Or, we can accept that different people need different things and create third spaces, to be used by those who choose to do so, and everyone's access and feelings and identity choices and inclusion needs are equally valued.

The difference is that you are trying to prevent people from using the toilet, they are not.

Ok.

If you're going to identify as single sex spaces not existing, then I identify as this whole gender thing not existing. <shrug>

Sex exists

Trans people are not trying to push anyone out. You are. You are saying that ‘if they are there I will self exclude’ that is not the same as being excluded.

No one is trying to prevent trans people from using the toilet.

There are toilets for people of both sexes. You have yourself confirmed that there is no safety issue, that there is no evidence to suggest that trans women will be attacked in men's toilets, and so literally the only reason for them to use women's toilets instead is because they want to.

You're saying that what they want matters and what women want doesn't.

That women don't need single sex spaces but trans women can't possibly be expected to share spaces with members of their own sex.

That if we oppose trans women using women's spaces we are denying their right to exist in society, but if female women feel unable to use such spaces knowing that they may encounter someone with a penis they can stay home.

The level of misogyny you are displaying is utterly breathtaking.

I strongly suspect you are trying to provoke me into saying something against the Talk Guidelines so you can frantically hit the report button and have me banned, so I think I am going to quit while I am ahead and not give you the satisfaction.

Good night.

I think it’s important for you to know that this is not true. You were living amongst a sheltered crowd.

So then stop trying to prevent them. Thanks!

And I’m not a snitch, sorry you got all hot and bothered over strangers peeing.

@fionamattel trotting out all the old tropes.

This is a nasty hobby you have if you do this on the regular. These are real people trying to get by like all of us.