Trans: the new ideology of the ruling class (article)

[PorcelinaV]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/09/25/trans-the-new-ideology-of-the-ruling-class/

I'm content with my "hobby" supporting women and their rights.

Now that’s something I can get behind.

Hardly, you are determined to flush women's rights down the proverbial toilet.

You will refuse to say what a woman or man actually is, though, right? Like, name one definite criterion that makes a person either a woman or a man - you will be unable to do that, yes? What all those people actually meant that had nothing to do with being female or male?

@fionamattel Let us accept that transwomen only use the Ladies' to pee. (They don't but let's accept it for the moment). Women use the Ladies' for other reasons as well. I used to suffer from random heavy periods. While I could sort the worst of it out in the cubicle, I would end up naked from the waist down, standing in front of a sink, mopping my thighs, backside and groin with wet hand towels, rinsing out my knickers and sponging down my skirt. If you think that I should be expected to do that in the presence of a man then you can fuck off to the far side of fuck.

That’s really, really wild and unusual ! Most would be very taken aback to see a naked woman washing herself in a toilet sink.

Have you never been arrested or had someone come to check on you for that ?

Of course she hasn't been arrested.

Women have empathy for another woman going through a biological phenomenon that only women ever experience, and they don't try to punish women for being female in the women's toilets.

Women's toilets are there so women can participate in public life without being subjected to the urinary leash, or the menstruation leash.

You must live a very odd life, that your first reaction to reading about a woman struggling with heavy periods is to query whether she has been arrested for it.

It would take more than a quippy phrase, it would take an academic article to compile everything that womanhood or manhood encompasses but as social constructs they are absolutely real and definable. Gender developed out of and around the sexes, but is not inherent to the sexes.

Living as a woman in our society makes you a woman.

Are you suggesting that trans women would?

I’ve just never seen a nude woman washing herself in a toilet sink, I would be a bit surprised!

Trans people often don't pass on the level of gender however. So if you wanted "same gender spaces", it's not going to work.

Whether gender is a "social construct", or just stereotypes, or whatever, I'm not going to worry about here.

You could try for "same gender identity spaces", but then why is that a good idea?

That's not going to create "comfort", as even if makes some males feel good, it will cause problems for many women, impinge on their privacy, and create discomfort.

It's also impossible to really know anyone's gender identity in that situation, so it's just basically a mixed sex space that anyone can enter if they choose.

Makes a lot more sense to just keep with single sex spaces I think.

People should use the toilet which feels most sensible and natural. I don’t think we should be so uptight about it.

Don't feed the troll.

Hardly! I’m a radical feminist.

Proof.

Let us accept your premise as true for the moment.

If "living as a woman in our society" makes one a woman, what would happen if you migrated to another nation that had completely opposite social expectations of the sexes?

Do you change sex?

What if I'm translating a book about life in that nation, where social expectations are totally the opposite of our own, into the English language?

Do I translate their term for male human as "man" because he's biologically male, or should I translate it as "woman", because his social role parallels the role of women in the UK?

If I migrated to a country with different gender expectations I would still very much be a woman in ways beyond my genitalia.

You would obviously translate it to man. The men in their society play a different social role.

You said yourself:

"I’m not suggesting that women share with men when there is a men’s toilet and a women’s toilet. That would be very socially awkward."

So there is a reason not to have mixed sex. If you used gender identity, it's mixed sex.

Someone's "gender identity", which you can't even tell, isn't going to stop something being "awkward".

And I think you’re really oversimplifying what a gender can contain. I am a woman, but I’m a very masculine woman in many ways.

It would be socially awkward to very obviously be living as a woman and to choose the men’s room over the women’s. Socially awkward for that person.

If it's socially awkward either way, then you find a different solution.

Never mind misread.

P.S. If I migrated to a country with different gender expectations I would still very much be a woman in ways beyond my genitalia.

Nah, you'd be a man by your own reasoning and you know it. If socialisation makes you a woman, then you'd be a man in the other country.

If I was raised in that culture, then yes!

Just leave people alone if they are leaving you alone.

You already admitted that "social awkwardness" was a reasonable grounds that people shouldn't be doing something.

You can't just throw that away because it's an inconvenience.