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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Róisín Murphy 2

424 replies

WarriorN · 13/09/2023 16:58

New thread as lots of deeper discussions going on

OP posts:
Thread gallery
71
WarriorN · 07/10/2024 14:35

So 'gwan ya good things' to Jean Hatchet, Winston Hazel and Róisín Murphy

Hear hear!

@jeanhatchet

Anything anyone can do?

OP posts:
Biffology · 07/10/2024 14:42

I'd like to think there's been a bit of raised awareness of this stuff on the back of recent events, where people are realising that such-and-such, over there, getting a 'campaign' mounted at them today, can't be ignored or written off because those people will be at your door tomorrow, coming after you.

libertineagain · 07/10/2024 16:17

Bit off current topic, but I saw RM supporting New Order in August. I had a quick Google before the gig and she says that the backlash was minimal. I suspect the TRA actions against her just peaked people like John Boyne and bought her more fans. She was absolutely amazing and I would definitely go and see her again.

www.nme.com/news/music/roisin-murphy-says-backlash-to-trans-comments-wasnt-that-bad-3611552

andIsaid · 07/10/2024 16:39

Does anyone know if she will playing in Europe in 2025? All the site are just listing concerts to the end of November in places like Vancouver, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

I would love to see her live...

Biffology · 07/10/2024 17:36

@libertineagain

The root-cause of this situation is liable to be someone with a grudge of some sort ; sour grapes searching for a respectable-looking pretext to &%*# people about.

biddyboo · 07/10/2024 17:57

I've just read Winston Hazel's full statement on his Facebook page. What a good egg he is ❤️

libertineagain · 07/10/2024 18:22

It's a great statement. He is a true ally to women.

duc748 · 07/10/2024 18:36

Just read it too. Top man. Let's hope it encourages others to speak up.

WarriorN · 07/10/2024 18:45

@andIsaid I had a Google and only found what you did unfortunately

OP posts:
WarriorN · 07/10/2024 18:47

An incredibly powerful statement:

Update on my non-attendance at Hagglers Corner on Saturday 28th Sept.
I was informed via a third party I was not welcome on the premises due to their 'safe space' policy, which I have requested but not yet recieved.

Apologies to those who turned up believing myself to be playing.
Hagglers chose to not inform the public prior to the event. For reasons best known to themselves.
Apparently, a young woman,stranger to me, has been attempting to smear my name and reputation in Sheffield.

Haggler's seem to have based their actions upon the word of this individual, or individuals aligned with them.

I have no interest in giving this behaviour much time. I’m too old, ugly and black and have dealt with much nastier behaviour over the years.

Haggler’s have made no attempt to engage with me in any professional manner prior to cancelling me the day before the event, despite me having supported and played their venue multiple times.

To date, I have not received a single call.

The issue for them seems to be that on 21st September, I attended a ‘Let Women Speak’ event. This was hosted by a registered political party
The Party of Women who have a candidate in Sheffield as well as Nationally.

This gathering of mainly Mothers and Grandmothers was initially well attended, but following the assault of 2 women, it thinned out, as some women understandably, feared for their safety, from Men.
This took place with Police presence in Barkers Pool. Court case pending.

The Women gathered stand for Women’s sex-based rights, whether in public spaces, the workplace, toilets, the NHS, sports, jobs opportunities, scholarships, rape crisis centres etc. A worthy and righteous cause in my opinion.
The rights which were fought for by generations of Women are under attack, sadly not just by men, but other women.

A crowd turned up to protest and abuse the gathering at Let Women Speak consisting of ‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Free Palestine’ antifa types, using these bolt on causes to try and legitimise their nonsense (who are the fascists?) and proceeded to scream, shout, jeer at and yes assault 2 Women.

I also had verbal abuse hurled at me and told I was on the wrong side, I expect because I am black, as apparently, we need to be told by the anti-racists how to behave and what /who to support. Make of that what you will.

The event had been labelled by the screaming mob, an Anti-Trans event and the attendees as Nazi’s, fascists etc. In reality it was mostly Women, many of whom have been involved in social justice movements, and caring for others most of their lives.
But It seems all that is needed to get people to abuse, shout over and defend the assault of two of them, is to call them predictable and abusive terms, which unbelievably, others take as gospel without digging any deeper.

For those in that crowd, you did succeed in scaring some Women, and those speaking about their abuse, safety of Women in the NHS etc could barely be heard. So, you did succeed in silencing Women. Do you wear that badge with honour? Sadly, I suspect you do.

Some Women didn’t attend due to fears it would affect their employment. They were right, as that is what this crowd do. They attack, shout, attempt to impact employment and reputation – doesn’t sound so righteous to me, but that is who they are.
Of course, I became that person for some unknown ill-informed group – an easy target for them.

Haggler’s based my cancellation on the word of such people.

You see, they have a ‘Safe Space Policy’ which apparently my presence would violate.
A ’Safe Space’ for whom is the question?
For me, a long timer of the independent club and music scene, probably older than most attempting to attack my reputation, there is only a need for a safe space for Women in a venue.
Women need a place of refuge to escape, creeps, drunks, and yes possible predators in a club or bar. We all knew this once, but apparently that space isn’t inclusive and now has to allow men to have access.

Young Women will be most impacted by such policies, as they have yet to find their voices, so it is for Men such as me and Women such as those at ‘Let Women Speak’ to fight for their safety in the absence of reality in some quarters.

Hold the line!

I do not fear cancellation, as it is the default for the weak minded. I do fear however for the safety of Women and girls. So, I will not bow down to the baying mob, who no doubt would have thrown stones at suffragettes, and cheered on the burning of women accused of witchcraft.

I stand with Women, straight, gay or Bi and their right to Women only spaces and events and will continue to do so.

And for those who, despite knowing me, my history and reputation did not see fit to do me the courtesy of calling me directly to discuss the event. We can consider any relationship we had terminated.

If I were to go along with this, just to get along, like so many do, I would be failing in my duty to my Mother, My Wife, Daughter, My sisters, nieces, aunties and the oppressed women of the world.

So do your worst, I will do my best.

Any men fighting for their right to be in Women only spaces, are the very men that must be kept out of those spaces.

Unapologetically,
Winston Hazel.

OP posts:
WarriorN · 07/10/2024 18:48

Especially

A ’Safe Space’ for whom is the question?

For me, a long timer of the independent club and music scene, probably older than most attempting to attack my reputation, there is only a need for a safe space for Women in a venue.

Women need a place of refuge to escape, creeps, drunks, and yes possible predators in a club or bar. We all knew this once, but apparently that space isn’t inclusive and now has to allow men to have access.

And

Any men fighting for their right to be in Women only spaces, are the very men that must be kept out of those spaces.

OP posts:
duc748 · 07/10/2024 18:50

So let's hear a few more DJs speak up now!

(God knows, their image could do with a polish! 😃)

WarriorN · 07/10/2024 19:49

duc748 · 07/10/2024 18:50

So let's hear a few more DJs speak up now!

(God knows, their image could do with a polish! 😃)

I know of a local dj in the NE who supports us.

A LWS event in Morpeth soon....

OP posts:
JanesLittleGirl · 07/10/2024 19:49

WarriorN · 07/10/2024 18:47

An incredibly powerful statement:

Update on my non-attendance at Hagglers Corner on Saturday 28th Sept.
I was informed via a third party I was not welcome on the premises due to their 'safe space' policy, which I have requested but not yet recieved.

Apologies to those who turned up believing myself to be playing.
Hagglers chose to not inform the public prior to the event. For reasons best known to themselves.
Apparently, a young woman,stranger to me, has been attempting to smear my name and reputation in Sheffield.

Haggler's seem to have based their actions upon the word of this individual, or individuals aligned with them.

I have no interest in giving this behaviour much time. I’m too old, ugly and black and have dealt with much nastier behaviour over the years.

Haggler’s have made no attempt to engage with me in any professional manner prior to cancelling me the day before the event, despite me having supported and played their venue multiple times.

To date, I have not received a single call.

The issue for them seems to be that on 21st September, I attended a ‘Let Women Speak’ event. This was hosted by a registered political party
The Party of Women who have a candidate in Sheffield as well as Nationally.

This gathering of mainly Mothers and Grandmothers was initially well attended, but following the assault of 2 women, it thinned out, as some women understandably, feared for their safety, from Men.
This took place with Police presence in Barkers Pool. Court case pending.

The Women gathered stand for Women’s sex-based rights, whether in public spaces, the workplace, toilets, the NHS, sports, jobs opportunities, scholarships, rape crisis centres etc. A worthy and righteous cause in my opinion.
The rights which were fought for by generations of Women are under attack, sadly not just by men, but other women.

A crowd turned up to protest and abuse the gathering at Let Women Speak consisting of ‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Free Palestine’ antifa types, using these bolt on causes to try and legitimise their nonsense (who are the fascists?) and proceeded to scream, shout, jeer at and yes assault 2 Women.

I also had verbal abuse hurled at me and told I was on the wrong side, I expect because I am black, as apparently, we need to be told by the anti-racists how to behave and what /who to support. Make of that what you will.

The event had been labelled by the screaming mob, an Anti-Trans event and the attendees as Nazi’s, fascists etc. In reality it was mostly Women, many of whom have been involved in social justice movements, and caring for others most of their lives.
But It seems all that is needed to get people to abuse, shout over and defend the assault of two of them, is to call them predictable and abusive terms, which unbelievably, others take as gospel without digging any deeper.

For those in that crowd, you did succeed in scaring some Women, and those speaking about their abuse, safety of Women in the NHS etc could barely be heard. So, you did succeed in silencing Women. Do you wear that badge with honour? Sadly, I suspect you do.

Some Women didn’t attend due to fears it would affect their employment. They were right, as that is what this crowd do. They attack, shout, attempt to impact employment and reputation – doesn’t sound so righteous to me, but that is who they are.
Of course, I became that person for some unknown ill-informed group – an easy target for them.

Haggler’s based my cancellation on the word of such people.

You see, they have a ‘Safe Space Policy’ which apparently my presence would violate.
A ’Safe Space’ for whom is the question?
For me, a long timer of the independent club and music scene, probably older than most attempting to attack my reputation, there is only a need for a safe space for Women in a venue.
Women need a place of refuge to escape, creeps, drunks, and yes possible predators in a club or bar. We all knew this once, but apparently that space isn’t inclusive and now has to allow men to have access.

Young Women will be most impacted by such policies, as they have yet to find their voices, so it is for Men such as me and Women such as those at ‘Let Women Speak’ to fight for their safety in the absence of reality in some quarters.

Hold the line!

I do not fear cancellation, as it is the default for the weak minded. I do fear however for the safety of Women and girls. So, I will not bow down to the baying mob, who no doubt would have thrown stones at suffragettes, and cheered on the burning of women accused of witchcraft.

I stand with Women, straight, gay or Bi and their right to Women only spaces and events and will continue to do so.

And for those who, despite knowing me, my history and reputation did not see fit to do me the courtesy of calling me directly to discuss the event. We can consider any relationship we had terminated.

If I were to go along with this, just to get along, like so many do, I would be failing in my duty to my Mother, My Wife, Daughter, My sisters, nieces, aunties and the oppressed women of the world.

So do your worst, I will do my best.

Any men fighting for their right to be in Women only spaces, are the very men that must be kept out of those spaces.

Unapologetically,
Winston Hazel.

What an amazing human being!

MarieDeGournay · 07/10/2024 19:49

What a wonderful statement from Winston Hazel, I think it covers just about everything that we say on here about LWS, women-only spaces, the violence of the TRA opposition...
Brave and noble. Thank you Winston Hazel.

Datun · 07/10/2024 20:05

UtopiaPlanitia · 07/10/2024 14:30

Does what happened to Joanna Cherry in Edinburgh apply to Winston and Haggers Corner? Surely, this venue is also breaking the law by how they have treated him?

https://news.sky.com/story/the-stand-apologises-to-joanna-cherry-over-u-turn-on-cancelled-edinburgh-fringe-event-12879264

Yes, they will have to explain why he is unsafe. Is it his belief?

RVEllacott · 07/10/2024 20:10

What an amazing statement and difficult for any rational or thoughtful human to object to. Sadly we don't often deal with the rational or thoughtful in this debate.

I hope there are a few people at the venue who are questioning the wisdom of their actions. Safe space my arse, it's never safe for women.

WarriorN · 07/10/2024 20:19

He probably should have his own thread.

His statement is so clear and well said. Pulls no punches!

OP posts:
Biffology · 07/10/2024 20:39

@WarriorN

That does sound like a good idea - WE know who Winston is and what his connection is to matters up-thread but there may be others who don't and perhaps they ought to arrive in this sphere via Winston..

TheKeatingFive · 07/10/2024 20:44

Incredible statement.

teawamutu · 07/10/2024 21:17

'You do your worst, I will do my best'.

What a class act.

Thank you, Winston Hazel.

ArabeIIaScott · 07/10/2024 21:27

If I were to go along with this, just to get along, like so many do, I would be failing in my duty to my Mother, My Wife, Daughter, My sisters, nieces, aunties and the oppressed women of the world.
So do your worst, I will do my best.

Fucking amazing. Thank you, Winston.

Biffology · 07/10/2024 21:29

I'm going to throw the partridge amongst the pigeons and see what you think of this.

Let's say you (yes I have a dangler so it's over to you ladies) add onto his comments and say 'As a mother/grandmother who Winston has referred to here, I/we...'

What would you want to say ?

Helleofabore · 07/10/2024 21:39

WarriorN · 07/10/2024 18:47

An incredibly powerful statement:

Update on my non-attendance at Hagglers Corner on Saturday 28th Sept.
I was informed via a third party I was not welcome on the premises due to their 'safe space' policy, which I have requested but not yet recieved.

Apologies to those who turned up believing myself to be playing.
Hagglers chose to not inform the public prior to the event. For reasons best known to themselves.
Apparently, a young woman,stranger to me, has been attempting to smear my name and reputation in Sheffield.

Haggler's seem to have based their actions upon the word of this individual, or individuals aligned with them.

I have no interest in giving this behaviour much time. I’m too old, ugly and black and have dealt with much nastier behaviour over the years.

Haggler’s have made no attempt to engage with me in any professional manner prior to cancelling me the day before the event, despite me having supported and played their venue multiple times.

To date, I have not received a single call.

The issue for them seems to be that on 21st September, I attended a ‘Let Women Speak’ event. This was hosted by a registered political party
The Party of Women who have a candidate in Sheffield as well as Nationally.

This gathering of mainly Mothers and Grandmothers was initially well attended, but following the assault of 2 women, it thinned out, as some women understandably, feared for their safety, from Men.
This took place with Police presence in Barkers Pool. Court case pending.

The Women gathered stand for Women’s sex-based rights, whether in public spaces, the workplace, toilets, the NHS, sports, jobs opportunities, scholarships, rape crisis centres etc. A worthy and righteous cause in my opinion.
The rights which were fought for by generations of Women are under attack, sadly not just by men, but other women.

A crowd turned up to protest and abuse the gathering at Let Women Speak consisting of ‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘Free Palestine’ antifa types, using these bolt on causes to try and legitimise their nonsense (who are the fascists?) and proceeded to scream, shout, jeer at and yes assault 2 Women.

I also had verbal abuse hurled at me and told I was on the wrong side, I expect because I am black, as apparently, we need to be told by the anti-racists how to behave and what /who to support. Make of that what you will.

The event had been labelled by the screaming mob, an Anti-Trans event and the attendees as Nazi’s, fascists etc. In reality it was mostly Women, many of whom have been involved in social justice movements, and caring for others most of their lives.
But It seems all that is needed to get people to abuse, shout over and defend the assault of two of them, is to call them predictable and abusive terms, which unbelievably, others take as gospel without digging any deeper.

For those in that crowd, you did succeed in scaring some Women, and those speaking about their abuse, safety of Women in the NHS etc could barely be heard. So, you did succeed in silencing Women. Do you wear that badge with honour? Sadly, I suspect you do.

Some Women didn’t attend due to fears it would affect their employment. They were right, as that is what this crowd do. They attack, shout, attempt to impact employment and reputation – doesn’t sound so righteous to me, but that is who they are.
Of course, I became that person for some unknown ill-informed group – an easy target for them.

Haggler’s based my cancellation on the word of such people.

You see, they have a ‘Safe Space Policy’ which apparently my presence would violate.
A ’Safe Space’ for whom is the question?
For me, a long timer of the independent club and music scene, probably older than most attempting to attack my reputation, there is only a need for a safe space for Women in a venue.
Women need a place of refuge to escape, creeps, drunks, and yes possible predators in a club or bar. We all knew this once, but apparently that space isn’t inclusive and now has to allow men to have access.

Young Women will be most impacted by such policies, as they have yet to find their voices, so it is for Men such as me and Women such as those at ‘Let Women Speak’ to fight for their safety in the absence of reality in some quarters.

Hold the line!

I do not fear cancellation, as it is the default for the weak minded. I do fear however for the safety of Women and girls. So, I will not bow down to the baying mob, who no doubt would have thrown stones at suffragettes, and cheered on the burning of women accused of witchcraft.

I stand with Women, straight, gay or Bi and their right to Women only spaces and events and will continue to do so.

And for those who, despite knowing me, my history and reputation did not see fit to do me the courtesy of calling me directly to discuss the event. We can consider any relationship we had terminated.

If I were to go along with this, just to get along, like so many do, I would be failing in my duty to my Mother, My Wife, Daughter, My sisters, nieces, aunties and the oppressed women of the world.

So do your worst, I will do my best.

Any men fighting for their right to be in Women only spaces, are the very men that must be kept out of those spaces.

Unapologetically,
Winston Hazel.

That really was ‘unapologetic’! Thank you for sharing.

And thank you Winston!