Complaints against NZ media not upheld regarding Kelly Jay Keen's rally

[LizaBizza]

https://www.thepinknews.com/2023/09/12/posie-parker-anti-trans-new-zealand-australia/

In summary, regulators have found it accurate for the media to describe KJK as anti-trans and to say that she has the support of Nazis.

It depends what you measure. If you refuse to measure any negative impacts on women e.g. women in the prison estate, and only collect data on variables you know will support your position, then it's not reflective of reality.

A lot of these rankings are absolute rubbish - they measure what will support their idea of what is right, not the other way around. Same for universities. The rankings produced in the UK always have UK unis at the top, big surprise. It's propaganda more than anything else.

Let's see what Suggestions comes back with that is specific to this index that Suggestions repeatedly posts as a 'gotcha - look how excellent these countries are doing for the women and girls in their population under self-ID'.

It is time that Suggestions analyses what Suggestions posts and explains why they keep posting it.

Also, it could actually be that these 4 countries are just very good for XY humans. Given they have self ID literally all the data points in the stuff suggesting 'women' are doing well could be male 'women'.

This is the whole point of self ID when it comes to data, you can't tell what's an XX human and what's an XY human.

yes. It is a GENDER GAP index. It is not a rating of how well women and girls are really doing under that government.

I am not sure though that my stating it in capital letters was even bothered to be read by suggestions, it is only about the fourth time I have said it on this thread.... it is just one of those questions about this index that suggestions never answers or acknowledges.

It really has crossed over to bizarre ignorance at this point.

How would you know if their self ID data also includes men when asking women?

It doesn't take much thinking through. As soon as you include men as women the whole of the data is worthless.

Now you can choose to focus on single issues and problems, which of course exist, I am more interested in the large, overall picture of how women's lives are improved

I think what people are focusing on, is that your line of argument just doesn't mean anything. It doesn't really tell us anything about self ID with even 1% confidence.

You're not looking at the "overall picture". You're just using a bad argument.

I am now at that point suggestions that I don't believe you understand the report that you are posting in any depth.

Maybe someone posted it on twitter, you thought it was a great 'gotcha' and you are just running with it. But just like you posted that series of 10 studies without actually reading those studies and understanding what you posted but you felt like you posted 'gotchas', this is you posting something that you think shows something that it really does not.

Because it serves men's interests to do so.

It reminds me of the male people with TQ+ identities who have been on threads here, listened carefully to what women have to say about their needs in single sex spaces, the importance of them, their feelings and their issues.

And then the male person has explained that they have listened carefully, and in their male opinion none of this is important enough that male people should have to respect or be inconvenienced, and the male decision is that male people will do what they wish and female people can - buckle under and do what they are told, have what said males will permit, and accept their role as junior humans permitted to have the crumbs and framing of their reality that males graciously grant them. And there will be some who will tell you the problem with the above is not that this is extreme sexism and illustrative that no one actually believes any male people change sex or are women with women - but that I have ripped the fig leaf off the illusion by naming the truth of the sexes involved and the hierarchy male people enforce.

And there's this fond imagining that females are somehow going to just agree to and go along with this. They are really, seriously, fucking not. And you'd think this hopeful misogyny would have realised by now.

I've got to rush now and I can't double check this, but I believe the top 4 countries have been in the top 4 for the last few years despite their introduction of self-ID policies. This would suggest that their self-ID policies have had no negative impact on the big picture, overall wellbeing and success of women.

So it could have increased sexual attacks, and/or caused women a massive amount of distress in losing their privacy and single sex services, but that doesn't matter because the economic statistics and number of women in government hasn't changed?

If that is your criteria of "success" and "overall wellbeing", that women can be harmed just as long as they haven't lost money, then that seems uncaring and like a criteria that could easily be rejected by everyone else. Probably should be rejected.

I wonder if it has sunk in yet?

Or whether the ‘issues’ are just all to be considered noise to be ignored? Because suggestions believes they have a superior grasp on the report and the findings of the report than any of us could have.

I do look forward though to them finally coming back with a coherent and accurate answer to our questions. That would actually be a first and worth celebrating.

Do you only bother to read posts that are direct replies to you, DadJoke?

Is that why you missed that several people have already dealt with the out-of-context screenshot you posted?

Perhaps you can be forgiven, as the earlier post that featured the same screenshot has been deleted for breaking Mumsnet rules?

Or perhaps you and your mates noticed that it had been deleted and you wanted another shot at posting it?

If I am being too cynical and you actually missed the earlier posting of that screen shot, then to save you the time of having to scroll back and me the time of having to repeat them, here are the links to my replies:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4895200-complaints-against-nz-media-not-upheld-regarding-kelly-jay-keens-rally?reply=129167092

and

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4895200-complaints-against-nz-media-not-upheld-regarding-kelly-jay-keens-rally?reply=129171805

I don't think they should be sterilised. Do you?

That's not an answer to the question asked though is it?

I'm not dignifying that with an answer as you've had one multiple times and its not as if it makes a difference.

I absolutely do think children should be protected from being created with multiple damage so that their parents can have all the choices all of the time without consequence. Someone that irresponsible, and that unable to consider the child before their own interests, and who can paint that kind of damage away with a lot of burble about queer theory really should not be a parent.

You first DadJoke.

Who do you prioritise here? The child or the person's right to take a medication that is a well known medication that causes health conditions in the infant that limits their life as an adult.

You need to get off the fucking fence on this issue DadJoke. Own your own fucking position while you are condemning a woman for protecting the child's rights.

Own it or stop fucking making the accusations that you are making.

<waits for queer theory article on how parenting should be queered and unsafe, unfit and irresponsible parenting is the new and wonderful frontier. There's a flag.>

I am not anti-women, I am against transphobia

The problem @DadJoke is that your definition of transphobia is, at best, 'I don't care about women' and at worst, actually anti-woman.

Once upon a time a poster spent hours attacking an FGM campaigner and survivor for being, in his words, "slightly transphobic".

Something about this thread reminds me of it. Can't think why. Anyway, I'd recommend that if you see him again, that you don't attach undue weight to his posts.

Anti-FGM campaigner comes under attack

Wow! Remarkable!

A male person who was there lecturing feminists on what they should be focusing their campaigning on! And calling Hibo transphobic!

Fuck! That is simply an outstanding effort and that male person must have learned to be very careful throwing about the 'transphobic' accusations against women who are forthright and blunt about protecting children and women.

I just read back some of the pages... that is fucking grim reading.

I've already addressed this clearly.

If the tiny fraction of transwomen that exist are IDing as women within the data collection then this would likely result in a marginal decrease in the outcomes for women in that country overall, and a drop in performance in the table, as transwomen as a demographic have poor outcomes on the dimensions measured.

It would certainly not inflate the figures for women.

You will find that there is a high correlation between the measures they looked at and women's safety.

The countries that have performed well on this table will also be performing well in areas of women's safety, especially contextually (relative) to their geographic region.

It is harder for accurate internationally agreed measures to be implemented on assaults and violence eg, due to variation in reporting and recording cross country. Eg. In some countries and regions there will lack of recognition that spousal beating is a criminal offence, so it will be underreported, or if reported not recorded accurately. This then means that international comparisons are not valid on this measure.

Evidence your claims please that there is a high correlation between measures they look at and women's safety.

Seriously, lay out your evidence. Stop talking in vague claims.

But one of the Righteous has spoken, helle!

You're not supposed to question. You're supposed to listen meekly when male people tell you what male people have decided is best for female people. Which will, incidentally, be what is best for male people.

I know Frood

I mean... you are sorted. You know where your towel is. But seriously, I doubt whether some of the Righteous can actually articulate anything beyond dismissal or vague assurances that lack any credibility at this stage.

Except in the political power section... which WEF have stated gets some major kudos in the overall score.

All it takes is a small number, even just one, and that measure is significantly impacted.

you seem to have forgotten that....