Gym /. Swimming changing issue

[BelfastDadof3]

I'll start first and say I'm sorry for intruding on a safe space for women.
Am a single dad (widow but not recent) with three kids 2 girls 11 +13 and a 9yr old boy.

Also I'd say kids are bright and confident, very excepting as I've tried to bring them up to accept all body shapes and not point / shame.

I go to the gym three times a week, do my workout and the kids have a supervised kids swim lesson (just the three of them) and I meet them after for a swim and play.

There isn't family changing, but I don't think it's applicable as my girls are old enough.

So having a muffin after the swim my 9yr old boy asked me.
"dad, why do most of the men walk about naked in the changing room?Willie's out. Is it not normal to have a towel around you untill you get your pants on."

So I said some people were just very free, but I think it's a bit over the top. Bit of a discussion about respecting others space etc and then my boy said" it's also odd that some shave all their body hair off, even the old fat men, it's weird looking"

Normal ish conversation.

Then he asked the girls what happens in the changing rooms. They were a bit horrified and said that most women and girls had big towels and kept private. Because - their words " girls arnt horrible like boys"

Then the eldest daughter said "a room full of men drying their bits would be duscusting. When the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in the changing room we use the disabled cubicle. There's lots of room and we don't have to see him dry his bits. And (jokingly) his man bum and huge boobs do not look nice."

So really I don't know how to approach this.
I presumed that if a man transfered to a trans woman he would have female genitals. Maybe I'm niave.

It's a really nice gym and pool - Bannatynes - a treat for the kids..
Is this the same everywhere?
If I raise it with the manager am I being transphobic to suggest no penises in the female changing?

i'm really, really sad that this transwomen has been so inconsiderate of showing her sexual parts to young female children in a women's changing room....why on earth wasn't she discrete and used the disabled space ? We had this problem last year where we stayed at a resort with pool that had always (pre covid) been single sex and was now unisex but men were still behaving as if it were single sex- on our first visit we saw 1 fully naked man getting changed and 1 man peeing in full view in the loo with the cubicle door open ......obviously men have different standards in their change rooms! i would normally have no reason to accompany my kids to the change room but from then on i did. I am a health care professional and have no problem with peoples bodies and the transpeople that i have met through work have always been considerate, private people ...but i have a real issue with any people who dont understand that we have societal rules in the UK that dont involve seeing people of the opposite sex naked in shared spaces.

A person flashing their penis at a child is abusing that child. It is threatening behavior and often part of a wider pattern of dangerous activity. Note that the OP, who I'm sure has a penis, doesn't think that exposing it to all and sundry is appropriate - because he has an understanding of boundaries.

Bad enough that the OP's son is having to deal with exhibitionists (good boy for calling it out as weird) but disgraceful that his daughters are.

No penises is women's spaces is a pretty basic rule.

She most likely identifies as female and is therefore in the correct changing room. Yes the changing rooms are single sex but if you identify as female and have a penis then you are going to use the female changing room. I work with child safeguarding and 93-95% of child are abused by someone they know. 1 in 9 girls (terrifyingly high) although I suspect higher as many don’t report

You can’t identify as female. Being female is a factual thing. If you are male, you’re clearly not female. A TW might wish they were female, but they’re not, and being male means they should be in the male changing rooms or a neutral and private third space if they find that more comfortable. They do not have the right to make women and girls feel uncomfortable when undressing. We have rights too. We’re not second class support humans 😡

The second part of your statement (the abuse bit) is a bit of a non sequitur. No-one has said this TW is an abuser or is looking for an opportunity to abuse. However, firstly it’s not just about abuse, it’s about privacy and dignity. Secondly, allowing male people like this TW into anthem female changing room, opens the door to males who are abusers or have bad intent. Good men stay out so bad men stand out. No adult male people should be in the female changing room. Their ‘identity’ is not relevant. Their sex is. The only thing their ‘identity’ might be relevant to is their feelings if they were to change in the Male changing rooms. If it upsets them, they use a private third space. That’s fine. That way they retain their privacy and so do the women and girls.

OP, contact the gym and complain. Not because this person is trans, but because they’re male.

A person who wants to display their penis does not feel like a woman. They feel like a member of the sex that can use their genitals to impress and threaten others. That sex is not female.

It is very irritating when some people claiming to be transwomen try to completely change that ways that women behave.

I think it's important for you to know that some transwomen have a condition called autogynephilia which means they are sexuallly fixated on perceiving themselves as a woman. This means that feeling like they are a woman in the ladies changing room is a sex act for them.

A decade ago this would have been reported directly to the police let alone the management. A man has knowingly exposed himself to your daughters. He knew exactly what he was doing because any decent human would have taken themselves off to a private cubicle and changed there rather than allowing two girls to see his penis. Go to the police and make a report so it is on record. When this man's behaviour escalates the police will not be able to say they were unaware.

It might also be worth mentioning that the TW would be safe in the male changing room, that you've never seen anyone ridiculed for their body or appearance in there. This brings it back to choice and comfort, so you have all the women and girls uncomfortable or one TW.

But the transwoman has a PENIS and every single person with a penis is more important than ALL women and girls, so clearly their dis/comfort is also more important.

Well this is all over twitter already so hopefully will be on Duncan’s radar.

An apologia for grown males showing their penises to girls.

Make sure to shame and chastise the girls for using the wrong words to describe the male who gets naked in their changing room.

OP, I hope your daughters are okay.

Personally I would be going straight to the police, never mind the swimming pool.

Grown men showing their genitals to young girls used to be well understood as an offense.

This.

Okay I can’t reply to everyone so I am hoping this reply meets everyone’s needs.

Going back to OP post about the girls comments “That when the [transwoman - edited by MNHQ] is in there we use the cubicle” implies 2 things. Firstly, this is not a one off occurrence and this is happened on a number of occasions. When this, then that. Implies more than once. Secondly, it sounds as though this is the first time OP has been made aware of this situation and I am guessing is a little surprised to
find this information out. This may have been something the girls have experienced for weeks, months, years. Having open dialogue, conversations, using the correct terminology for body parts and people keeps children safe.

Regarding the definition of a transwomen a transwomen is someone who was born male and now lives as and/or identified as a women. This person, the OP, talks about is likely to identify as a women. Her driving licence and passport may reflect this. My question regarding the gyms policy are you expecting staff to check these documents on arrival?

We are living in a world where genitals does not reflect on identified sex. Women have penis’ and men have vulvas and vaginas.

Regarding the behaviour from what OP has said is that the transwomen was getting changed, not flashing her genitals at them.

How do we feel about lesbian women being naked in front of teenage girls whilst getting changed in the changing room? How do we feel about gay men getting changed in front of teenage boys in the men’s changing room?

The OP said that the transwomen doesn’t “pass” as a women but what happens next time if the next transwomen appears as a women?

OP you are keeping your children say by having these conversations and advocating for them as you see fit.

This is not a one of situation that won’t happen again. Having language to articulate and navigate this is key.

Just to make it very clear I am not advocating men flashing women/teenagers/children their genitals in any form. A man pretending to be a transwomen to gain access to women, girls, and children is a predator and should be treated as such. Reported for criminal behaviour to the police.

But from what OP said this isn’t what happened. The transwomen was getting changed and the girls made themselves feel as safe and comfortable as possible with the situation.. you can’t ask for a better scenario!

I have attached images below of transwomen… take your time to reflect in your bias and your privilege. Protecting children at ALL costs is every adult’s responsibility, but take a moment to check in as to whether your prejudice and discriminate is the actual issue here.

I cannot believe we are now in the situation where exhibitionists are able to show their genitals to girls and people would be afraid to even raise the issue. My god; it's a situation that places paraphiliacs on a.pedestal. So dangerous.

No. Own it. You believe a male can have their penis out in front of children.

You dismiss the harm of male adults having their penis out in female single sex spaces.

Own it, you have no excuse but that you prioritise ideological belief above safeguarding children.

@CalMeKate didnt take long for your homophobia to show.
Lesbians are female and belong in female changing rooms. I have never felt threatened by a lesbian in a changing room, but if I was she doesn’t have male strength and I stand more chance of defending myself.
No males belong in female changing rooms. Their penis belongs in the male spaces. And even if they have had surgery, they belong in the male spaces.

'A man pretending to be a transwomen to gain access to women, girls, and children is a predator and should be treated as such.'

Oh, great. How do we tell the difference?

@CalMeKate the transwoman is NOT in the correct changing room because Bannatyne Gyms specifically bans transwomen from the women’s changing rooms. Some gyms (eg Virgin Active) allow them but Bannatyne does not.

”I have attached images below of transwomen… take your time to reflect in your bias and your privilege. “

What does it matter what a male looks like? Fuck this is madness!

our bias? Our privilege?

WTAF?

We are living in a world where genitals does not reflect on identified sex. Women have penis’ and men have vulvas and vaginas.

This is not a world I live in. Sweet zombie Jeebus. And it’s penises, not penis’.

This.

Go to the police OP. They may already be aware of this individual.

I mean, if we're sharing pictures, I can go and find a few. There's a whole section on Twitter of men dressed as women in women's toilets and changing rooms. Many of them not suitable for sharing here, though.

This is Canada. Let's not be like Canada.

https://reduxx.info/exclusive-trans-woman-confronted-by-mother-in-swimming-pool-locker-room-is-a-convicted-pedophile/

You can ask for a better scenario. You can have the male change with all the other males. Lesbians are women they belong in the womens changing room.

Woman and female is not an identity its a biological reality. Otherwise drs would have no idea how to treat people in a coma or babies in utero as they are unable to express identities.

This is not womens problem to solve. The male has no consent to use these girls or any other women and girls in there as validation props.

Op should report to the staff and the police!

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/02/person-charged-with-indecent-exposure-at-la-spa-after-viral-instagram-video

Oh… yes… look at those male people in bikinis!

Seriously, what the actual fuck do you believe you are showing us? That YOU personally believe that cosmetic surgery and hormones make a woman? On a feminist board?

And you claim to be in safeguarding. You have no boundaries yourself and therefore have no concept of the boundaries that children should have.

You think that a male with augmented breasts are women and should be able to show their penis in front of children. And that children should be told that this is fucking normal.