Page 12 | I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

betterchange · 2023-08-07T17:08:45+00:00

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere! A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.) Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out. In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

MrSand · 28/10/2023 22:24

Billy - why do think we have separate male and female public toilets?

JanesLittleGirl · 28/10/2023 22:28

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

Glad that you found women's problems so funny.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:30

I don’t find ACTUAL problems funny at all. I do however find over dramatised, ridiculous comments hilarious.

StarlightLime · 28/10/2023 22:35

Men in women's spaces is a major problem for most women, @BillyNotQuiteNoMates
Your hilarity is quite disturbing.

JanesLittleGirl · 28/10/2023 23:23

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

Where to start with this?

Your DD should not be abused for using ladies toilets. Another woman might question her but would be assured by her response. Anything else is wrong.

I don't know how many men take small kids shopping compared to the number of women but it won't be many. Those that do are not confined to cubicles and can park the pram behind them while they use a urinal.

I never mentioned risk. I believe that I am entitled to my dignity and privacy when using a public toilet.

JFT · 28/10/2023 23:42

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 27/10/2023 22:26

Given that my daughter has been abused by women in changing rooms, because she has short hair and wears joggers, in general I’d say that people should mind their own business. (Not particularly aimed at the OP but at those who think they deserve brownie points, but deciding who should or should not be allowed in certain areas, based on people appearance)

I used to have this issue when I was young, skinny, fit, also taller than average woman. I've had my hair short and long and unbelievably even when it was long, women used to yell at me for being in the women's loos. There wasn't even such a thing as trans issues in those days and unbelievably I don't even look masculine in any way -but- I used to do a job that I needed to wear workwear trousers and work boots. I took to wearing pink T-shirts and my hair in plaits but I'd still get yelled at!

As for changing rooms, I believe that maintaining women only changing is a huge issue that should be enshrined in law if necessary and that there should ideally be 'mens' and 'mixed' areas for everyone else.

LadyOfTheWagon · 28/10/2023 23:46

Don't think I could get too annoyed about a guy entering an enclosed dressing room to help his partner tbh.

MassiveWordSalad · 28/10/2023 23:51

A thread last posted in back in August resurrected to tell women they don't need single sex spaces. Rightio.

Fredshred · 29/10/2023 00:44

GrumpyPanda · 07/08/2023 20:58

To be fair OP said they weren't English, and I suspect thinking of department store changing rooms as single-sex is a UK thing. I've lived in Germany, Sweden, and the Netherlands, and I don't think anyone would have batted an eyelid at the scenario described by OP. Expectations around everyday situations are different between cultures so I equally appreciate it's important to posters on here.

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Really? I’ve lived in Germany, Italy, France and have now been settled in Belgium for the last 20 years. Men’s changing rooms and women’s changing rooms are very much the norm. Think you may be making things up to support your assumption.

LadyOfTheWagon · 29/10/2023 00:46

MassiveWordSalad · 28/10/2023 23:51

A thread last posted in back in August resurrected to tell women they don't need single sex spaces. Rightio.

An enclosed dressing room is single sex if it's only occupied by a woman. Ultimately, the retailer makes the choice about their dressing room policy and if you don't like it shop elsewhere.

ArthurbellaScott · 29/10/2023 06:58

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 22:20

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.

Women are at greater risk from men.

In addition many women just prefer single sex spaces for reasons of privacy, dignity, and religious reasons.

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 08:24

Trans women are more at risk than cis women, or don’t they matter to you?

Agrona · 29/10/2023 08:30

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 08:24

Trans women are more at risk than cis women, or don’t they matter to you?

No, they really are not. Women are at risk from men, no matter how they identify.

VoodooQualities · 29/10/2023 08:37

Transwomen aren't at greater risk than women. And if they were, the answer still wouldn't be to let them into women's spaces.

RebelliousCow · 29/10/2023 08:45

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 28/10/2023 20:23

Just use whichever toilet you want to use, or wait until you get home, and stop telling other people what they should do

That's not how it works. We have rules and boundaries for a reason. A good reason.Nobody can just do whatever they like, irrespective of other people and their rights and needs.

Without boundaries people have no protection. Boundaries are a marker of civilised living.

RebelliousCow · 29/10/2023 08:49

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 08:24

Trans women are more at risk than cis women, or don’t they matter to you?

No, they are not. Transwomen are male, by definition. Males are and have always posed a greater threat to women than women do to men.

Women tend not to be voyeurs, or peeping toms. Women don't make heavy breathing phone calls to strangers, nor expose themselves to lone men on the street......put cameras beneath toilet stalls.....do not engage with fetishes in the way that males do.

Third spaces are the obvious solution, as already mentioned above, if TW don't feel comfortable in male facilities.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/10/2023 08:56

So the person who resurrected a months old thread to scold us just happens ti have a daughter with short hair that women have definitely been mean too in the toilet and also happens to completely buy into TWAW and TW are more vulnerable than actual women

right

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/10/2023 08:56

Oh and also is a user of “cis”

right

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 09:07

Well the transphobes are out in full force now. 🙄

Its a statement of fact that trans women are more at risk than cis women are. They attract violence from both cis women and cis men, simply by daring to exist, as evidenced in this thread. 🤬

Give your heads a wobble

Theeyeballsinthesky · 29/10/2023 09:16

Oh honestly 0/10

time was we had a better class of finger wagger on here

And don’t call us cis, im
not a fucking subset of women

TW are men not women

334bu · 29/10/2023 09:18

" daring to exist"

Hyperbole on steroids

What violence do men who identify as women experience at the hands of women?

Hoardasurass · 29/10/2023 09:28

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · 29/10/2023 09:07

Well the transphobes are out in full force now. 🙄

Its a statement of fact that trans women are more at risk than cis women are. They attract violence from both cis women and cis men, simply by daring to exist, as evidenced in this thread. 🤬

Give your heads a wobble

Please quote your source for that so called statement of fact.
I can tell you for a fact that no trans person has ever been murdered in Scotland, none not a single 1. Yet hundreds of women are every year.
We know that transwomen are 5× more likely to be sexual predators than any other type of men(ONS statistics).
Now I know that you have problems with the dictionary definitions of words so could you please give us your exact definition and an actual example of what you class as violence since you have previously implied that telling a man to leave the women's facilities is, and that's not what most normal people class as violence.

I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

VoodooQualities · 29/10/2023 09:31

Who's more at risk can be debated, but it's a red herring because the answer to TW being at risk of violence isn't to allow them into women's spaces.

SinnerBoy · 29/10/2023 09:36

BillyNotQuiteNoMates · Today 08:24

Trans women are more at risk than cis women, or don’t they matter to you?

Perhaps that's true on whichever planet you hail from, but here on Earth, the exact opposite is true.

Catsanfan · 29/10/2023 09:37

Hoardasurass · 29/10/2023 09:28

Please quote your source for that so called statement of fact.
I can tell you for a fact that no trans person has ever been murdered in Scotland, none not a single 1. Yet hundreds of women are every year.
We know that transwomen are 5× more likely to be sexual predators than any other type of men(ONS statistics).
Now I know that you have problems with the dictionary definitions of words so could you please give us your exact definition and an actual example of what you class as violence since you have previously implied that telling a man to leave the women's facilities is, and that's not what most normal people class as violence.

Show quote history

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates any response to this? It totally debunks your bullshit.