I chased a man out of the changing rooms ----

[betterchange]

M+S, ladies'underwear section. It's all cubicles and to be fair, nowhere does it say that it is a women-only changing room, but I think it's likely to be seen as such by most users since it's in the bra-and-knicker-selling section of the shop and there are other changing rooms elsewhere!

A woman came out of one of the changing rooms whilst I was queueing and beckoned a man in. I said, I'm sorry, I don't think you should go in there, this is for women trying on underwear. The woman queried this but I stuck to my guns and the woman behind me in the queue backed me up; the man apologised and left. (It probably helped that they sounded as though English wasn't their first language so they may not have known the "rules"! I think it was a genuine misreading/mistake on their part.)

Anyway, no harm done, but it made me think - that was easy, but if it had been a very obvious man-dressed-as-a-woman, I'm far from sure that I would have felt able to speak out.

In that situation (the man-dressed-as-woman), would anyone here have said anything?

I had a surprising (given their recent reputation for allowing men in the women’s changing rooms) experience in M&S recently. I had taken my daughter in to try on some school uniform - my local M&S has women’s section downstairs (fitting room in middle of lingerie section) and upstairs has kids, men’s and homeware sections. The upstairs fitting room is where the men’s and the kids section meets and isn’t labelled (well I could see nothing that said ‘men’s’) so I assumed was a general unisex changing room. The store was empty and no men around in any case and no shop assistant at the entrance.

I took my daughter in, she tried on the clothes and when we walked out a female shop assistant sternly told us “these are the men’s fitting rooms, women’s are downstairs“. I apologised for not having seen a sign and walked away.

on the one hand I felt quite pleased that my local M&S seemed to be keeping men and women changing rooms separate and actively policing it but then I wondered if a man had entered the fitting room in the ‘ladies’ section would they too have been told off and directed to the other changing room appropriate to their sex or would they have been allowed in incase they happen to identify as a woman?

(if I’d been quicker I may have been tempted to reply to stern assistant that I was identifying as a man today…)

Given that my daughter has been abused by women in changing rooms, because she has short hair and wears joggers, in general I’d say that people should mind their own business. (Not particularly aimed at the OP but at those who think they deserve brownie points, but deciding who should or should not be allowed in certain areas, based on people appearance)

If what you claim is true I suggest that you direct your ire at the males who use the women's facilities and are the direct cause of women challenging anyone who appears male, though I've never known any female who can't tell the difference between a man and a woman at 50 paces

There's no way I would use changing rooms in shops, particularly gendered ones. The potential for embarrassment is just too great.

To be fair, I get most of my clothes online these days, and the clothes I wear tend to be forgiving in terms of sizing (they have to be since my body is basically the wrong shape). For most trans women it shouldn't be a big issue not to use changing rooms in shops.

I was in Primark today. The signs have changed. It said These changing rooms are for woman only. For other genders please ask staff.

They did that a while ago after some seriously bad pr over sex assaults and voyeurism. The problem with the changing rooms is that they class a woman as anyone who identifies as 1 so they're still mixed sex

@AlphaTransWoman Even if I disagree with gender stuff, as a gnc desister, your body isn't the wrong shape. When I deal with dysphoria and anorexia, I have to scream in all caps in my head MY BRAIN LIES TO ME WHEN THERE IS NOT AN IMMEDIATE DANGER TO FOCUS THIS ANXIETY ON. Also, as someone who is tiny but buys menswear, learn to sew. Learning to alter garments changes the entire silhouette, and saves a lot of money bc you aren't specialty shopping. Refer to yours truly with her amazing blazer she bought from the boy's section.

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates I get that too sometimes from behind, because men entering the ladies is such a problem now that we can't just "mind our own business". I'm tired of getting boxed in by men in my personal space, sitting on piss or jizz on the seat, and asking moids to stop taking selfies where women want privacy.

I’ll put the blame where it belongs, thanks! With idiots who think they know which toilets other people “should” be using. Just mind your own business and go and have your pee

😂😂😂😂
that’s brilliant! Thank god some people haven’t lost their sense of humour over these numpties getting their knickers in a twist over hoards of non existent men in dresses 😂😂
Thanks

Toilets and some other facilities are segregated by sex for good reason. The toilet you should be using is the one that corresponds with your sex, not with the way that you dress or how you wear your hair.

If trans identified people and/or men who like to wear women's clothes don't like that then the obvious solution is to campaign for third spaces. Some new buildings already have this as an option. It seems to work well and serve its purpose. Toilets exist not for the purpose of personal validation - but to provide a measure of dignity and privacy - especially for women and girls in situations and spaces which are predicated on biological difference.

Good for you 👏🏼 👏🏼 👏🏼
What cunt bags!

Just use whichever toilet you want to use, or wait until you get home, and stop telling other people what they should do

I never thought my daughter would feel and be safer going into men’s toilets than women’s. Those people supporting these aggressive actions should be ashamed as yourselves.

'Stop telling other people what they should do'! 🙄

How about people use the correct toilets for their sex and if they don't want to how about they wait till they get home rather than bothering the 94% of people who want single sex toilets

Aggressive actions like expecting people to use the toilets that correspond to their biological sex.

What about when we meet a man masturbating in the ladies' toilet? What do we do then?

Aggressive actions like confronting people who don’t meet their narrow minded stereotypes of what a man or woman SHOULD look like.

Have a piss and leave

So the man wasn't actually in the changing room; wasn't looking to enter surreptitiously but was being openly "beckoned" in by a woman; and you didn't actually chase him out of it, you prevented him from going in.

So what? The woman had no right to invite him into the female changing rooms. She doesn't get to decide that it's ok for every other woman in there.

Yeah, the clickbait title had my hopes up but the actual content left me disappointed. It had me expecting a drama-filled coffeetime story.

We should ignore masturbating men because it's none of our business and women shouldn't be 'aggressive'. Got it.

Have you (and your DD) ever actually used a women's public toilet? Mostly we just go in for a pee but we also use them for a number of other biology associated reasons. Also, even when we are just having a pee, we have to worry about babies in prams or 4 year old kids or how to keep an eye on our shopping.

If you are a woman and have never had to think about any of this then you may want to review your priviliges.

😂😂😂😂
Yes, I’ve used public toilets
And as I’ve said, my DD has been abused for using ladies toilets.
Why is it any different for a woman to have to watch a child or shopping than for a man? Or why do you think they are more at risk from a man in a dress, than from a woman in the women’s toilets or a man in trousers in the gents toilets? Give your head a wobble.
Your argument makes no sense, has no logical basis and just smacks of over dramatic transphobia.